Ready to wake up...

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Patrick
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Re: Ready to wake up...

Postby Patrick » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:37 am

This seeing 'a little more', this profound understanding is great. Thrust this.
Life goes on with the usual sensations, thoughts and feelings.
It can take some time for the body-mind structure to integrate what is seen.

What triggered this seeing?

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AuroraDance
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Re: Ready to wake up...

Postby AuroraDance » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:30 pm

What triggered this seeing?
It has been many things: thinking about what/who "I" really am. Watching how my thoughts come automatically, seemingly randomly or at least beyond my control. Watching how little control I have over anything in my life. Even the things I think I control, I really don't. Actually, even thinking about it right now, I can't come up with one thing that "I" really control. Even trying to be aware of my thoughts and finding their source took practice that was dependent on me remembering to do it, but I could not control the remembering. It just happened. It is hard for my mind to accept this. And yet, I actually do feel a little like I'm watching a movie now... watching a story happen that I didn't write and am not directing. Even my desires... where do they come from? What makes me want to eat? to run? to sleep? to read? It all comes from nothing. Or it comes from somewhere that I cannot see.

Spending time in nature and certain music has helped spur this, too. Those experiences came from nowhere, too, though. I just found myself struck by how miraculous it all was and how it was fine just unfolding as it was without my mind thinking it could control it or that it should be something else.
It can take some time for the body-mind structure to integrate what is seen.
I think that is why I could not write it. I still identify with my mind a lot, it seems. And I think much of the sadness stems from knowing that is happening and knowing that there is another way now? It is confusing. I feel I have only glimpsed something...

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Patrick
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Re: Ready to wake up...

Postby Patrick » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:10 pm

Could you answer the following questions. Take all your time for this.

1. Is there a ‘I’, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

2. Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

3. How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no self.

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AuroraDance
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Re: Ready to wake up...

Postby AuroraDance » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:11 pm

1. Is there a ‘I’, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
If there is, I sure as hell can't find it! :) The only place it seems to be is in my thoughts, in the form of a belief that the mind is in control; that the body, mind, the story the mind tells, all the things I attribute to my"self" are all one thing, separate from everything else. But none of that is true, so it is only a belief. "I" is only a story in my head, a story about control and ownership, neither of which any of these thoughts can do or have. When my body and mind die, that story about "I" will disappear too.
2. Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.
The self is a story, like "I". It comes about because of socialization and it functions as a way for the mind to believe it has some control, that it can "own" things, or make things happen. It is just a collection of thoughts, beliefs, and the effects of previous experiences/conditioning that the mind clings to. Then the mind takes all of these and claims to own them, even though the mind itself can't own any of it because none of it is real. The mind itself is only a collection of these things in and of itself. The self is just a false belief, a mistake made by the mind that the body gets pulled into as well. Yet, everything that has happened to the "self" and shaped the it were outside of the control of the mind to begin with. Those events arose spontaneously. What the mind decided to cling to or the beliefs and thoughts that arose as a result of those experiences also arose spontaneously, as just life unfolding. The self is an illusion. The body and mind are expressions of life, just like a specific tree or flower, but unlike the mind those expressions of life do not tell a story about themselves that the tree or flower believe they are. They just are. The thoughts and feelings will arise from my mind, as always, sometimes telling stories about who I am, but they are not physical things that I believe are truth, that I identify with. They are just thoughts and stories, expressions of life like hair or fingers. Am I my hair? Am I my finger? No. Why would my thoughts be me? They just happen, just like my hair grows.
3. How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no self.
This one is hard. I don't know if I could describe it. I would ask that person to find one thing that they could control, the one thing they felt they made happen. When they trace some action back to the thought that initiated it, I would ask them to find what initiated that thought. Where did that thought come from? Did they make it happen? Did they feel they chose it? Who chose it? Where is the thing that chose it? Why that thought over any other thought?

As far as describing my own experience: I would say it would be like finally seeing that you are unfolding beyond your mind's control. The story and thoughts of your mind are not true and certainly not you. They are just happening. Life is just flowing and arising spontaneously, and so are "you" - all the experiences and sensations and thoughts experienced, because "you" are life. It is totally impersonal.

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Patrick
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Re: Ready to wake up...

Postby Patrick » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:18 am

"when my mind dies..."? What is your mind?

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AuroraDance
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Re: Ready to wake up...

Postby AuroraDance » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:12 pm

My mind seems to be just all of my thoughts put together. I guess when I mean it "dies", it would be my brain, which is what generates my thoughts. I definitely experience many thoughts. Often I still identify with them, although it seems to be less and less. Or at least, I feel like I'm starting to watch them as if I'm watching a movie. They aren't real anymore.

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Patrick
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Re: Ready to wake up...

Postby Patrick » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:40 am

Hi Kristy,

Thanks for all your answers.
The LU guides confirm that you see it. Well done.
You are welcome to join the LU FB aftercare group.
I'll send you a private message for that.

Warm regards,
Patrick


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