I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:51 am

i sat quietly today and asked intently is there a watcher? i couldnt find any. now this is weird. what i came up with which just popped into my head was that there are only verbs and no nouns. that humans created the I a long time ago to describe processes that they were seeing but had no control of. by applying I or me to it they then had a ownership of what was happening around them, heres the crazy part about a hour after that i was browsing your gatecrashers book on pdf and right there smacking me right in the face in one of the conversations of Elenas ( i think thats her name) she mentions that there are only verbs and no nouns. i was like wow, exact wording. also driving earlier it started raining and reached to turn on my wipers. then i realized i just did that, no control. i went back and sure enough realized that at the moment right before i turned them on there was a split second thought to "turn your wipers" on. then i realized that thought just came out of nowhere too. then came a small realization that hey thats not a I deciding that its just the mind/brain doing its job and protecting and directing the body. i didnt really have anything to do with it, just aware of it taking place. i am definitely not my body and not my thoughts or emotions.

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:59 am

one thing that confuses me are emotions. i know im not my emotions but i got pretty angry today about something kinda petty. i saw it arise and didnt have control over my immediate reaction to the anger but then it was gone in a few seconds. not sure what to ask here except maybe is there no way to release this anger so that it becomes less and less. i dont need to be blissed out or anything . i know that i cant control when anger comes. perhaps this is what the other part of the board is about. i feel on the cusp of seein this completely, not there yet completely but close. i wonder how to go deeper or as jed puts it further one this self is seen through? thank you Ilona for your patience and kindness

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:37 am

Cool, you getting closer :) keep going.

This exercise may be helpful at this stage, do it http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... s.html?m=1 and let me know what you notice.

As for emotions, do you expect that anger should never arise again? Neither feet or annoyance?
Life goes on as it did, everything arises and passes away. So do emotions. Without identifying they pass quicker as they are freed. So meeting everything that comes up with openess, with no resistance, makes the whole experience a joyful ride, rather than hard work while trying to control what is.

Emotions are closely connected to thoughts. If a thought is believed, then there is emotion arising. Watch it how it works in real life with you and also other people. Study the thought- feeling connection and report what you found out.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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TPT
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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:41 am

you suggested this exercise already before but i will certainly do it again.
As for emotions, do you expect that anger should never arise again? Neither feet or annoyance?
oh no i dont think that anger or annoyances should never rise up again, i was just wondering once this is clearly seen through and you get a deeper and deeper experience of it if it changes reactions to these types of emotions. ive certainly noticed lately that when i do get angry or some other negative emotion that it passes much quicker than it did before. i used to believe what my thoughts were telling me about the world and "me" which in turn i guess made me believe in the emotions too but now there is recognition of what they are and much more awareness when they come up without identifying with them.
Watch it how it works in real life with you and also other people. Study the thought- feeling connection and report what you found out.
i will do this plus the other exercise and get back to you

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:28 pm

Cool. Let me know how it goes. :)

Yes, emotions arise and pass quicker. They get noticed and released. Seeing that as it is- impersonal let's them pass without much drama. So there is this freedom to experience that alows everything that comes up to come up. Resistance is a guide to the darker areas, uncovered beliefs that still trigger emotions.

It's not that all suddenly becomes blissfull forever, but a beginning of the road towards that.

What are you noticing today?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:50 pm

What is behind the I thought?

Typing, sitting , listening, looking, feeling the wind from the fan. Putting I am before all this doesn’t change one thing about reality. Its all still happening regardless of an I . getting up , goin to work, working, coming home from work, exercising , reading , eating, goin to sleep. It all happens by itself, or doesn’t happen. So and so made me angry or so and so made me happy. Well they did whatever and then there was a reaction. Its seems that thought , feeling and reaction occur one right after another but so close as to appear simultaneous, then followed by more thoughts and feelings and reactions. So where does the me come in? man this is frustrating. Why does a me still keep inserting itself into the situation? It must be fear that prevents the letting go of this me concept. Fear that if there is no me that means no control and that life just lives and whatever happens there is no you who can do anything about it or not. No control over wether this particular story turns out well or not. It seems to come down to fear of no control of anything. There is no control but pretending there is a me allows pretending there is control? Im just flat out confused. Seems like surrendering control is the biggest piece to see through this me, although I may be wrong. I just don’t know. Not sure where to go from here. When I search for who gets angry or who gets happy I can find no one. A feeling just comes up and there is a reaction to it and so on . thoughts come up wether patterned thoughts or fresh thoughts in the moment of a certain situation and they come from no where, so do the feelings and so do the reactions. I guess the ability to reflect on what is happening around us makes the me feel real. Someone says or does something or something happens, thought comes up about it, then feelings , then reactions, then reflection . does the reflection part make the me seem real. Im just twisting in knots.

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:03 pm

hey ilona, hope your day is good. i wrote all that stuff before i saw your last response so im gonna respond to that now and wait for your response to the other thing i wrote.
Seeing that as it is- impersonal let's them pass without much drama. So there is this freedom to experience that alows everything that comes up to come up. Resistance is a guide to the darker areas, uncovered beliefs that still trigger emotions.
so what your saying is that by taking ownership of these emotions when they come up with this me they become personal and that what makes them so bad. the me tries to take these e-motions or (energy in motion) and own it which leads to all sorts of problems mentally , emotionally , and physicallly. and thoughts, emotions and reactions are energy processes the created self believes those are personal. ive never thought of it quite that way. il have to watch all that tomorrow throughout the day and see what happens.
It's not that all suddenly becomes blissfull forever, but a beginning of the road towards that.
i honestly have never looked for bliss like some people have. my thing was a complete mastery of life. like i couldnt stand not knowing and i wanted to be free . but i realize now that mastery of life implies a me to master it and i guess a better statement would have been absolute cooperation with life instead of mastery

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:05 pm

Resistance is a guide to the darker areas, uncovered beliefs that still trigger emotions.
could you say a little more about this? im a little confused by this part.

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:35 pm

Good work. I see you put an effort and keep digging.

Let's talk about resistance a bit. It's a friend, because it shows you areas that haven't been looked at and are run by beliefs. When resistance arises it shows where you are disagreeing with what is. And what shoulds or shouldn't are in your system that do not allow to see everything simply as perfect.
Resistance is a protection mechanism that is doing its job- guarding most prescious beliefs and ideas that you want to hold on. Without resistance life is not seen as struggle- everything flows as one movement. So next time resistance surfaces, notice it. You may follow the lead and find the belief that it is protecting. Or just simply note and let go.

You may spend some time investigating that and watch resistance in you and others, how it playes out. It may be revealing.

Now back to 'me' and what it's all about.
You don't exist. The thoughts come and go, feelings come and go, but you have nothing to do with that.
Is it true?
Is there a doer other than in a story?

Write what you see.
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:34 pm

ok ilona i will keep an eye on resistance

i think the gate is here. i have been seeing the story the last few days but i havent been apart of it. i have had a few strange experiences ive never had before. i got to work yesterday and was walking to the door . its a decently long walk so while i was walking i had the distinct experience that i was not walking. that walking was just happening and then i had a experience that only lasted a second or two and was gone. i experienced being nothing, no self, just a process. it was very strange. i understood even in that brief second what it was like to never have been born. it was so short yet it was unmistakable . the rest of the day i just noticed without any effort all the processes going on . life just happening. nothing else was nearly as strong as that void feeling i had that morning. then last night when i got home i read some more of the gatecrashers book. i just had this overwhelming feeling that it was seen through. i listened to a bunch of different music and just had hearing without a self in the way. jimi hendrix never sounded so wonderful. anyway, all the rest of the night i sat in my computer chair and had an uncontainable energy. at first i thought it was anxiousness but then it just felt like energy coming out of a faucet that i couldnt turn off. took me forever to go to bed last night. a funny side effect of that was my cat kept jumping in my lap and would walk all the way up to my neck and sit right across my shoulder. she would start drooling so much i had to put her down and then she would just jump right back again. finally i gave up and let her stay. i think she could feel that energy and wanted to be near it. as im typing now the energy is coming back a little. also, large feelings of gratitude came up and i dont know why. it was just gratitude surronding me. later i also had great gratitude for you and helping me. its weird to say this to someone i dont know but i truly love you. not in a weird way just in a simple way. im crying a little now. when i woke up this morning it was mostly gone and i went to work and took that same walk and tried to recreate that void but i couldnt. i have been much more peaceful the last couple of days. i have had little irritations but they have come up , i said a little complaint and they were gone. also there was just awareness watching the irritation no investment in it at all. im not sure whats next. i know i wanna go further, deeper, as deep as possible to truth, truth, truth. i feel like there is some unconcious knowing that the concious doesnt realize yet but somehow it does. not sure what to make of it.

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:54 pm

wow, sounds like you are staring at it. so cool.
don't try to recreate the experience from the past. it's gone. notice instead here now. it's always available.

what is the i that you refer to in the post? describe what you see.

your love has been received and sent a wave back.
:)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:38 am

yes when i was writing at the beginning i was going to try to write all that without the i but that became tedious and i just wanted to get it out without thinking to much about it. i did and do recognize that im writing with the "I" the reason why i say that im staring at the the gate is bc i seem to be spending time on both sides of it . like on a see saw that is now leaning more to seeing there is no gate. there is no self, it just feels spacious . there is a feeling too of a I trying to gain a foothold but it seems to be slipping away. last night i had no doubt whatsoever , but this morning when i got up there was doubts and worries of going back. there is a definite change , a flow the last few days. i guess its hard to know if its a state or complete recognition. just been trying to allow and like i said earlier watch processes happening.

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:23 pm

how is it going? is there a gate? what have you been noticing lately?

when a kid realizes that santa is not real, is it a state or one way shift in perception? can he ever believe that there is this creature that delivers presents to children all over the world? would seeing that there is no real me be a state or realization? how would that seeing be recognized?

and what about doubts, are they not thoughts passing by effortlessly too? are they 'your' doubts?

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby TPT » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:11 pm

theres just been watching the past few days. watching everything . every emotion, thought, situation, reaction that comes up. ive been looking for a self in every one of those and there isnt one. there has definitely been a shift. theres no going back to before it. the santa analogy fits perfect. the state that was happening the other night was the crazy energy that was being felt. doubts just pop up too, like a song would just pop up out of nowhere. "ive" been noticing a detachment from this body too. like theres nothing in there, more like around it, something like that hard to describe. it feels like a immediacy to everything, like since the self concept has been seen through that theres more of a immediacy to reality. theres also less thought. sporadic thoughts still pop up alot but it hasnt been one on top of the other like before. on one hand theres full acknowledgment that the self is seen through. just some doubts pop up here and there. just wondering if there is some absolutely permanent shift that would be recognized with no doubts whatsoever. wondering what happens next and how does the experience go deeper. guess theres a little fear there that me would find a way to sneak back in somehow

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Re: I am ready to begin. Is Ilona available?

Postby Ilona » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:32 pm

sounds delightful, TPT, looks like the seeing is happening. you are staring right at it. doubt is just a thought passing by, yes. have a look, is it possible to believe in a separate entity self ever again? you may get lost in the story but that is also part of what is happening by itself.

so was there ever a self?

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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