Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

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xyzzy
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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:13 pm

Thanks for the advice on that. I think I would have to wait until thoughts like that come up to do that, though, rather than go looking for them and then try to do that. So, I'll see how that goes in time.

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Eloratea
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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby Eloratea » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:00 pm

ok, share how it works.
Regards.

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:53 am

ok, share how it works.
I'm not exactly sure. Life goes on, there aren't thoughts about things not being ok or wanting things I don't have. Various things are unpleasant (like, I'm nervous about a dentist appointment tomorrow), but overall, life is neutral.

I have a question for you. Why is it that seeing that there is no self is liberating for many people?

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby Eloratea » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:28 am

I'm not exactly sure. Life goes on, there aren't thoughts about things not being ok or wanting things I don't have. Various things are unpleasant (like, I'm nervous about a dentist appointment tomorrow), but overall, life is neutral.
Maybe there is a little resistance to going to the dentist? :) Thoughts about past experiences? Isn't that causing anxiety, not the reality of here and now? There is also a place for surrender. And maybe also for stop labeling experience as good, bad and neutral.

Sure, some life experiences are more enjoyable, some not very much. But, without imagined center, poor little “me” to which things happen, there is more spaciousness in every experience. Isn't it?
Why is it that seeing that there is no self is liberating for many people?
Every time you see something that resonates as true, something you haven't seen before and which gives you a better perspective on life, it feels liberating. „Truth shall set you free“.
For many it is finally possibility to step more easily of the annoying thoughts or it is liberation from long-time seeking, as they see that there is no seeker. Not that everything stops, but the perspective is changed and like broadened.

It feels like opening for new possibilities. What happens afterwards is different. Everyone is unique. Everyone should follow what resonates with them, what feels for them to lead in a direction of expansion, or liberation.

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:39 pm

But, without imagined center, poor little “me” to which things happen, there is more spaciousness in every experience. Isn't it?
I'm not sure what spaciousness is. There is a feeling of being which is there sometimes, but I wouldn't describe it as "spaciousness". It used to be there a lot more often, back when I wasn't working a job and had a lot of free time, but now it's not there all that much. Seeing that there is no me hasn't had any effect on this, from what I can tell.

So, where do we go from here in this discussion? I get the feeling that you're waiting to see if anything will change for me in my experience of life. It could be a long wait.

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby Eloratea » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:45 am

So, where do we go from here in this discussion? I get the feeling that you're waiting to see if anything will change for me in my experience of life. It could be a long wait.
Where would you like to go?
Are you looking to see if anything will change in your experience?

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:36 pm

Where would you like to go?
I'm not sure. I see that there is no "me", no separate self. Seeing that is the point of the one on one discussions in this forum. However, it seems that there's an expectation that some sort of changes would happen in the life of someone who has seen this, and no such changes have happened.

My question is, do you have such expectations? There's apparently another forum here which I don't have access to, which I would have to be "liberated" to see. Am I liberated? (I would not use that word to describe myself, but I do see that there is no self)
Are you looking to see if anything will change in your experience?
Yes.

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby Eloratea » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:08 am

Are you looking to see if anything will change in your experience?

Yes.
Could you say more about this?
As there is no you separate from experience, if you is just a thought appearing in experience, how this looking/expecting works?

I will share your thread with other guides and they will see if have some more questions regarding your formal confirmation as liberated.

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:55 pm

Could you say more about this?
As there is no you separate from experience, if you is just a thought appearing in experience, how this looking/expecting works?
There is looking to see if anything will change in this experience. It's a habit of language to use the word I when describing actions, and it takes some effort to say certain things without referring to an "I".

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby Eloratea » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:01 pm

I didn't mean that you avoid word I. But to look more deeply into what is going on and describe it as clearly as possible; so it is easier to see where you are and if it is more than intellectual understanding. Can you do that?
Your experience sounds like: when you look, there is no you. But when you don't look, it is as if there is you. Is it so?

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:55 am

Your experience sounds like: when you look, there is no you. But when you don't look, it is as if there is you. Is it so?
Yes, I think so.
I didn't mean that you avoid word I. But to look more deeply into what is going on and describe it as clearly as possible; so it is easier to see where you are and if it is more than intellectual understanding. Can you do that?
I think the question you wanted me to answer was:
Are you looking to see if anything will change in your experience? As there is no you separate from experience, if you is just a thought appearing in experience, how this looking/expecting works?
It's difficult for me to answer some questions because I don't have much of a memory for experiences. I can describe something which is going on now in detail, but often describing something which happened earlier in detail is not possible.

This is a question I'm having difficulty answering in detail. All I can say is that there is paying attention to my experience with the idea that something might change.

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby Eloratea » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:52 am

Your experience sounds like: when you look, there is no you. But when you don't look, it is as if there is you.

Yes, I think so.
How that manifests? In everyday life and social interactions? Is there still belief that there is someone playing the role of Edward? Is there still need to preserve the self image?

And how it is in the experience here and now?

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:17 pm

How that manifests? In everyday life and social interactions? Is there still belief that there is someone playing the role of Edward?
I'm having a lot of trouble answering these questions. I don't know what it would mean to experience everyday life and social interactions as if there was a me or as if there wasn't a me. I don't understand the question about someone playing the role of Edward.
Is there still need to preserve the self image?
Maybe. Like, if someone teases me, it "hurts my feelings", I don't like it. Maybe that is the need to preserve the self image.
And how it is in the experience here and now?
I'm not sure what you're asking.

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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby Eloratea » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:42 pm

ok, I am also having some trouble reading from your words about your actual experience and locating where you might be at.

Could you please answer these questions to share it with other guides:
  • Do you exist?
    Is there and was there ever separate self in real life?
    What does it mean to see through the illusion of self?
Just answer honestly from actual experience, if possible with more words.
Tnx.

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xyzzy
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Re: Anything more than intellectual understanding of this?

Postby xyzzy » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:11 pm

Do you exist?
No. There is this experience, and (probably) a body and thoughts and such, but there isn't anything separate which has all of these things. The body and thoughts are part of this experience, and not something separate from it either.
Is there and was there ever separate self in real life?
No. The separate self is is just an idea, a belief combined with some feelings.
What does it mean to see through the illusion of self?
It is seen that the self is just some thoughts, beliefs, feelings, and not an actual thing which can have anything or do anything, just as no other thought or belief can do things. Thoughts and feelings exist, but the subject of these thoughts, in this case, doesn't.


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