Ego applying for destruction.

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lex
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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Wed May 30, 2012 1:21 am

Ok, I'll wait for your next response. I saw I wrote “piece of mind” instead “peace of mind”. A piece of mind I already got. :-)
By noticing me analysing, you mean that it is too abstract? Want me to be more down-to-earth? I'll try.
Tomorrow I will describe having breakfast.

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Wed May 30, 2012 11:48 am

No i mean your trying to understand your way into this instead of looking!

Do not wait for my replies to look and answer the questions.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Wed May 30, 2012 12:07 pm

Maybe I am biased by all the things I read or heard, could be, but what I found is from a sincere, fresh look. Maybe I put it in words in a clumsy way or I use “advaita speak”, but I took a honest look and this is what I saw: An organism through which I live. And I don't know if "I" can be separated from this organism. I can't say that I AM this organism, neither can I say that I am not. And I still maintain that I exist without any doubt, although I don't know WHAT I am.
The above is what I notice when I take an honest look right here, right now.
Are you living life or is life living itself without a separate controler? Look.
I am not interested in enlightenment or superpowers. Just in the truth and ending this compulsive search. Just that. I don't expect all my problems solved. Just some piece of mind and return to simplicity. Or is that already too much of an expectation?
No thats ok, but search can only fall away by seeing the truth not by doing.
Well are you really inadequate or not good enough?
Well, like everybody, sometimes yes, mostly no. Of course sometimes something I set out to do fails
indeed but is there a you? And isnt inadequate just thought after an action?
Can you look behind the mind is anything behind it in control of it?
Can't seem to find a controller. The mind is triggered by questions, reacts on events, and feedback by itself, associations. Sometimes something unexpected pops up out of the blue.
When I was fantasising as a child, which I did a lot, I noticed I could control my fantasies, but it was much nicer to let them evolve by itself. So there was a controller then. Also I can choose to stop breathing for a while.
But never totally stop, try, breath will continue involuntarily. Follow the breath, are you doing it or is it just happening? Are you digesting your food? Growing your nails and hair?
I don't know if I have the right attitude in this process. I have no idea what is relevant or not, so I let me be guided by your questions like a blind man, trusting that you will lead me to the "gate". I see as my task to answer your questions as honest and profound as I can. Is that correct?
No man no, look really look into experience then answer from experience totally honest. Profound doesnt matter.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Wed May 30, 2012 1:50 pm

When I had breakfast this morning I noticed that the whole process of eating was fully automatic. It was kind of comfortable. I didn't have to do anything. All went by itself. So I see that at least the body doesn't need a chauffeur. I will investigate (by looking) if that is always the case, or that sometimes a controller is present. Until now I don't find one. Fingers are typing this text without an entity steering them. Probably some complex neurological process in the brain is “doing” it, but there is no “me” sending commands to the fingers.
The mind just reread this text and found a typing error, after which the body removed it. Again no involvement of a controller. Took a sip of coffee. Noticed. Still there is an entity observing all of this. That's me. (was typed automatically).

I'll keep looking during my daily beslommeringen.
Are you living life or is life living itself without a separate controler? Look.
Thinking interferes here. Intelectually I KNOW that there is no controller, just life. This makes it harder to just look without preconception. So maybe it is better to assume that there is a controller and trying to find it?



(wordt vervolgd)

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Wed May 30, 2012 7:04 pm

The first part is exactly the way to go, keep that going.
The mind just reread this text and found a typing error, after which the body removed it. Again no involvement of a controller. Took a sip of coffee. Noticed. Still there is an entity observing all of this. That's me. (was typed automatically).
Rereading of text, finding and changing of mistake, impulse to drink sip of coffee yeah, is there a self doing that? Is there really an entity/you separate from life doing this or is it just happening? Are you in control of observing/being conscious meaning even when eyes are closed your aware, your not in control of the exact moment of falling asleep and waking. although it might be typed automatically look into this, is it really there this entity Lex separate from life doing the observing?

Now does thought really interfere or is there just the thought ''I only know it intellectualy already this will interfere''. No rush but lets look at thought as well, how is it different from eating? are you in control of your next thought? For example can you not think of a yellow seagul reading this? Moreover can you again look behind thought, anything there?

Do not assume anything! Not what me or anyone else says, be sceptical, check in experience... Keep it going mister.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Thu May 31, 2012 12:28 am

Rereading of text, finding and changing of mistake, impulse to drink sip of coffee yeah, is there a self doing that?
No. I can say:"I am doing that" or "It just happens" or "Life is acting", but what really happens is much too complicated for me to understand, so all these sentences are gross simplifications of what actually happens, and so all three are in fact lies. “I” can't take a sip of coffee as much as “I” can't grow a plant. This self is an illusion, a construct, a ghost. But if one believes in ghosts, they seem very real.
I see this ghost is foisted upon this organism and now there is a feeling of powerlessness. There is no way to get rid of it.
What I clearly see is that all beliefs are made-up and gross simplifications of reality, and that includes the believe in a self.
So the only thing that is left is:

Image

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Thu May 31, 2012 3:04 pm

Please respond to every question!
Rereading of text, finding and changing of mistake, impulse to drink sip of coffee yeah, is there a self doing that?
No. I can say:"I am doing that" or "It just happens" or "Life is acting", but what really happens is much too complicated for me to understand, so all these sentences are gross simplifications of what actually happens, and so all three are in fact lies. “I” can't take a sip of coffee as much as “I” can't grow a plant. This self is an illusion, a construct, a ghost. But if one believes in ghosts, they seem very real.
I see this ghost is foisted upon this organism and now there is a feeling of powerlessness. There is no way to get rid of it.
What I clearly see is that all beliefs are made-up and gross simplifications of reality, and that includes the believe in a self.
So the only thing that is left is: ?
If there is no self how to either see or get rid of it? We say sense of self is there, take a look if a self is really there? Its an untested belief, so lets test!

So there you go it seems very real, it does seem real also here. This I which feels so real is like a label, can you see that thought labels everything? Like chair, computer, house, tree, car, cloud, thought which are real but also the Joker or the Hulk, the images are real, the actors are real, Joker and Hulk are fiction. self is just the same, thoughts are real, body is real, self isnt, trough conditioning self or Lex feels very real, but is it?

I cannot fill in the big ? your gonna need to look, can it be true? All that is typed here is to help looking to occur there. Another example is: Look at the label library, there are of books, bookshelves, librarians, computers, but are any of them library or is library only a word for communication? Look, isnt self the same?

Is the thought I real or just a thought? Does thought think?

Ok man, take your time, only answer when absolutely certain then report back, trust the process, truth will be seen...
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:33 am

If there is no self how to either see or get rid of it?
Library is a good example. A library is a collection of books. A self is a collection of ideas, reflections, memories + a "sense of self".
What exactly am I looking for? This sense of self appears and disappears. Nothing seems to be constant. There is a sense of control, but no controller, there is a sense of a central processing unit, but no center.
This “self”, as far as it exists, seems some kind of mechanism/process meant to interact with others (other selves). To please them or manipulate them. Processing data and mentally playing out different possible scenarios/conversations.
This I which feels so real is like a label, can you see that thought labels everything?
Yes. The word “table” evokes a template in my mind to which a set of certain objects fit. The word “Machiel” evokes a vague impression of a male figure labeled “seen it”. The word “Ik” evokes some subtle sensations in the body and sometimes some assoiation with my image in the mirror. But the essence is: It is a label. If it is pointing to an object, this object is the body. (I purposefully avoid to say “my body” to not create a circular reference.) This body in turn is also a label for a series of impressions and ideas.

The big ? need no filling in. Not knowing is OK.
Is the thought I real or just a thought? Does thought think?
The thought “I” is just a thought.
Thought can not think.
That what thinks I can call the mind, but I can also not call it anything at all. Just don't mind it. :-) Not label it.
Because I don't know where these thoughts come from.
What is strange is that I feel free to use the word “I”, while it is clear now that that is just a matter of conversational convention.
This way of looking at “I” as just a label is difficult, because I'm not used to it. It is like I have to practise it, to remind myself: “Hey hello, "I" is just a label, I don't really exist”. There is a deep habit to believe in the reality of this structure, and I feel “something” blocking full awareness, resisting to see what already has been seen now.

Another voice says: “So there is no such thing as a person here. So what?”

(wordt vervolgd)

See what tomorrow brings.

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:16 pm

If there is no self how to either see or get rid of it?
Library is a good example. A library is a collection of books. A self is a collection of ideas, reflections, memories + a "sense of self".
What exactly am I looking for? This sense of self appears and disappears. Nothing seems to be constant. There is a sense of control, but no controller, there is a sense of a central processing unit, but no center.
This “self”, as far as it exists, seems some kind of mechanism/process meant to interact with others (other selves). To please them or manipulate them. Processing data and mentally playing out different possible scenarios/conversations.
There is no such thing as library and no such thing as self, it are both just labels. It does not matter what it seems to be like only if its really there or not. I have the feeling you are trying to get a perfect understanding of it first, this wont help to actually see if its there or not. Its like with eating, seeing that eating and digesting happens without consciously doing it.

[quote=''lex'']
This I which feels so real is like a label, can you see that thought labels everything?
Yes. The word “table” evokes a template in my mind to which a setm of certain objects fit. The word “Machiel” evokes a vague impression of a male figure labeled “seen it”. The word “Ik” evokes some subtle sensations in the body and sometimes some assoiation with my image in the mirror. But the essence is: It is a label. If it is pointing to an object, this object is the body. (I purposefully avoid to say “my body” to not create a circular reference.) This body in turn is also a label for a series of impressions and ideas.

The big ? need no filling in. Not knowing is OK.
[/quote]
ok great, but is it your mind? difficult processes going on but look beyond it, is anything there?

[quote=''lex'']
Is the thought I real or just a thought? Does thought think?
The thought “I” is just a thought.
Thought can not think.
That what thinks I can call the mind, but I can also not call it anything at all. Just don't mind it. :-) Not label it.
Because I don't know where these thoughts come from.
What is strange is that I feel free to use the word “I”, while it is clear now that that is just a matter of conversational convention.
This way of looking at “I” as just a label is difficult, because I'm not used to it. It is like I have to practise it, to remind myself: “Hey hello, "I" is just a label, I don't really exist”. There is a deep habit to believe in the reality of this structure, and I feel “something” blocking full awareness, resisting to see what already has been seen now.

Another voice says: “So there is no such thing as a person here. So what?”
[/quote]
Thinking happens, seeing happens, hearing happens, reading happens, typping happens, sleeping happens just like raining happens, sunshine happens and wind happens, all just life flowing, is anything separate from this there controlling everything? Is there really something there behind controlling thought? Look! (allow looking to occur, are you doing the looking or ...)

Of course the word I can be used freely that doesnt change, else communication becomes very weird ;)

I did not tell you to stop labelling, I tell you to look if the label I points to something real or not. If I is indeed only a label that means there is no I at all.

Look for yourself what the implications would be if there were no self. Make a list of what this would be like, look into the world as if it were already true...

Keep going, going into nature would be a good idea or in your case probably the beach, and take a good look at the natural flow of life, is there a separate self in the seagul? Is it doing anything to see what he really is or to improve himself? Isn't it just a part of the flow of life? Is there anything separate controlling nature? As you walk look, who is in control of where exactly the next step will land, watch all the senses and thoughts, are you doing them or are they just happening as a part of life?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:57 pm

I've seen there is no I. It's simply a label pointing at nothing real.

I will keep looking intensively through this new perspective until it becomes totally clear and natural. It feels now vulnerable and easy to relapse into the old believe. I had some fears, but they didn't come from the new perspective itself, but from all the stories I heard about massive shifts that could happen once “IT” is seen and the fears that are supposed to go along with that. In the end I peacefully fell asleep, albeit a little late.
all just life flowing, is anything separate from this there controlling everything?
No.
Look for yourself what the implications would be if there were no self.
Sounds a bit contradictory :-) , but I understand what you imply.
Make a list of what this would be like
I will and I'm curious what will be on that list. No idea, yet.
look into the world as if it were already true...
It is true. I see that. The system/brains/wetware/program/I just has to get used to it. Open up to it.
Is the seagul doing anything to see what he really is or to improve himself?
They are constantly trying to improve their flying skills. 8^) Practising a lot. But I see your point.

OK, I will have a busy time, so probably will not post until next week. Will try to create the list.

I feel that now it is OK to thank you for what you did until now.

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:13 pm

alright lex, one quick thing it is cnot about believing anything for real, about seeing what is real. So also when busy, look is there a you being bussy or just being busy?

take care *love*
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:42 pm

I read one question wrong. I read: “Is it your mind?”, but the question that is more effective is “is it your mind?” That works like a koan. I'll keep it in mind.

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:45 pm

No dont keep it in mind, look, is it?

Stop trying to figure it out, you can't! First look then understand... Do or do not there is no try, although doing does not mean effort, just plain seeing without using the mind to make it so. Look were you there before birth? Were you there just after birth? Go back to the first memory, the first feeling ''I am'' where was Lex then?

Now quiet the mind totally... If it wont thank it for all it has done, appreciate it, tell it that it has done enough then ask it to relax... Now look beyond, where were you before birth and will you be after death? Before and after the birth and death of universe/existence/matter? Look now, when mind relaxes (dont try to force it), if it only relaxes one instance appreciate it again... Be relaxed about it... No destruction of ego, there is no ego, is there a separate iLex?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:36 pm

"Mind" is a label. Thoughts are arising from something unknown and disappearing in the same unknown nothingness to never appear again. As does every moment. The self as controller has gone, now is left the concept of a giant neural network that controls this organism. But also this is a concept. It is not what I see.
What I see is experiences coming and going. And even "experience" is a label, albeit very general.
No dont keep it in mind, look, is it? [my mind]
Mind is a label. Thoughts come and go. Sometimes a thought/feeling/notion arises of claiming ownership. It's got a 'sticky' feeling to it. Do you want me to report the contents of the thoughts/feelings/notions that arise, like I am doing now? Is that relevant?
Look were you there before birth? Were you there just after birth? Go back to the first memory, the first feeling ''I am'' where was Lex then?
Am unable to do that. I remember some observation from early childhood: I noticed that I felt like I had lived for eternity and at the same time I am always fresh and new. Can't really get this notion back now, there is some resistance. But I can vivdly remember that it was there. And, although I can't feel it now, I know the feeling comes from a true source. I can't feel, but I can connect to it. It is the feeling of being alive.
Now quiet the mind totally... If it wont thank it for all it has done, appreciate it, tell it that it has done enough then ask it to relax... Now look beyond, where were you before birth and will you be after death? Before and after the birth and death of universe/existence/matter? Look now, when mind relaxes (dont try to force it), if it only relaxes one instance appreciate it again... Be relaxed about it... No destruction of ego, there is no ego, is there a separate iLex?
I'll come back to that. I want to find a quiet moment to do that. The mind says: “It is impossible to know”.
At this very moment it feels awkward to use the word "I".

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:32 pm

"Mind" is a label. Thoughts are arising from something unknown and disappearing in the same unknown nothingness to never appear again. As does every moment. The self as controller has gone, now is left the concept of a giant neural network that controls this organism. But also this is a concept. It is not what I see.
What I see is experiences coming and going. And even "experience" is a label, albeit very general.
Was there ever a self controling what happens?
No dont keep it in mind, look, is it? [my mind]

Mind is a label. Thoughts come and go. Sometimes a thought/feeling/notion arises of claiming ownership. It's got a 'sticky' feeling to it. Do you want me to report the contents of the thoughts/feelings/notions that arise, like I am doing now? Is that relevant?
Mind is label, is self a label? Thoughts labeling experiences as your experience?

And NO anytime soon I'm gonna have to bring my zenstick and hit you on the head... How many times do I have to tell you its not about thoughts, feelings, sensations? I want you to look/check/find out in the direct experience of now what is actually there, what is actually happening right now! Tell me that... Are you seeing right now? Are you aware right now? Are you hearing right now? Are you feeling the chair and/or the ground beneath your feet? Are there thoughts? I'm not joking! answer all the ? ? ? ? ? here.
I'll come back to that. I want to find a quiet moment to do that. The mind says: “It is impossible to know”.
At this very moment it feels awkward to use the word "I".
I understand you think you need a quiet moment, that became a habit but quietness or not the feeling ''I am'' is always there first before anything else. Where would you be when all thoughts and sensations fall away?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/


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