Ego applying for destruction.

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lex
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Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Thu May 17, 2012 9:57 am

Ah, I'm in. Finally. Struggling with liberation, enlightenment, advaita etc. for about 30 years.
One of the first thoughts I had when I was introduced to spirituality was:
"This shouldn't take long, I have to see it quick and immediately, I don't want to be a seeker the rest of my life."
Well....
Now I am one of these people who I saw in my first satsangs, which I was so afraid to become like them: An eternal seeker.
So I am an "experienced seeker". I really don't know if that makes me a hard nut to crack or a piece of wet cake. We'll see.
Where I am at the moment:
It is clear that my true nature is awareness.
It is not clear that my true nature is love.
Ego is present in the form of self-consciousness.
I am investigating ego-concepts by means of "the Work" by Byron Katie.

I'd prefer to work with Elena if she is available, as I feel connected to her.

My time zone is GMT+2, and I like to work in the morning, as that is my clearest time, but we can experiment with other times of days (other moods, other "personalities").

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun May 20, 2012 1:31 pm

Hello Lex,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed.

I'll check if Elena is available at the moment, not sure to be honest. Will let you know as soon as possible!

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Sun May 20, 2012 6:45 pm

Well Lex time to let go of the label *seeker*. Elena will be unavailable for now, but I'll gladly guide you!

Time does not matter, reality is there always no matter what is going on. Also it doesn't matter who points, it has to be seen clearly by that one, but thats true for all guides.

What do you expect to find here'?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Sun May 20, 2012 9:32 pm

Oh btw have you worked with a guide here before Lex?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Thu May 24, 2012 11:04 pm

Well Lex, whats going to happen next? Are you going to wait and postpone this till Elena comes in and hands you enlightenment on a silver plate?

What if she is run over by a bus, truck or car tomorrow? Is all hope of seeing if there is a separate person in everyday experience or not then lost? This can be seen while doing the laundry or making something to eat ( like Elena).

I know all about wanting to find the best of the best most enlightened teacher, but that is not what this is about, all that is needed is the ffing balls to actually look for yourself in the reality of right now! So after 30 years of relying on profound words of wisdom, transmission or meditation its now time to let all this go for now and have an honest look without any crutches.

Either you commit to doing this or you'll never find out... No matter who your ''working'' with, if it is Katy, Elena, Christ, Buddha or Machiel it needs to be seen there, nobody can do that for you. All that is needed is to find out if there is a seeker doing all this seeking or if the seeking and everything else that has been going on has happened as a part of the whole without a separate Lex doing this.

So what happens when you stare the possibility in the face there might really be no self at all in real life? Write it in big letters on a post it ''IS THERE REALLY A ME SEPARATE FROM LIFE/EXISTENCE/THE WHOLE?!'' of beter ''IS ER ECHT EEN IK AFGESCHEIDEN VAN HET LEVEN/BESTAAN/HET GEHEEL?!''

Zullen we hiervoor gaan Lex? Lets go for it, later you'll laugh your ass of about how simple it was :))
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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lex
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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Sun May 27, 2012 8:24 pm

Hi Machiel,

I just noticed that there are 4 replies already on my mail.
I did not get notifications in my email and I checked regularly here, but just saw "0 messages".
So now I know where to look.
Sorry I did not notice the responses. Funny how it works. I was a bit irritated that I didn't get any reaction and you for the same reason. So we immediately start to make stories about each other without even knowing us. :-)
So I have a technical question:
Is there a way I can get notifications by email if there is a response?
Now I have to leave, but I'll come back to you today or tomorrow.
English or Dutch is equal to me.

We gaan ervoor. [8^)

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Sun May 27, 2012 8:37 pm

Ok, recently had the same problem :) Totally below there should be the link '''subscribe topic'', that should do the trick.

looking forward to your reply. Oh and im probably the slowest typer on the block, but I'm right here ;)
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Mon May 28, 2012 12:17 am

Found it ...
Kijken is zo belangrijk :-)
Als je een keer goed kijkt vraag je je af hoe je het over het hoofd hebt kunnen zien.
Verwacht dat het hiermee ook ongeveer zo gaat.
Back to English and on topic...
What do you expect to find here'? - A guide who is prepared [like me] to persevere until the very end.
The very end = absolute certainty about my true nature / end of all questions about self / complete dissolution of the question “What am I ?”
The first question I need to return to you is:
If there is no “I”, then who is investigating? Who or what is pondering “What am I ?”

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Mon May 28, 2012 11:56 am

ok first 2 other questions that also need answering:
Oh btw have you worked with a guide here before Lex?
So what happens when you stare the possibility in the face there might really be no self at all in real life? Write it in big letters on a post it ''IS THERE REALLY A ME SEPARATE FROM LIFE/EXISTENCE/THE WHOLE?!'' of beter ''IS ER ECHT EEN IK AFGESCHEIDEN VAN HET LEVEN/BESTAAN/HET GEHEEL?!''
Please do this, write down: ''there is no self anywhere'', what comes up?

Not who is pondering but is there a who doing the pondering?

Finally so we are clear on this will work only when I ask the questions, you look in experience and then answer. Take the time needed. Also stop the other things your doing, books, meditations you have done enough, focus on this, can you do that? Lex?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Tue May 29, 2012 12:50 am

I haven't worked with a guide here before.

“Not who is pondering but is there a who doing the pondering?” - That's correct, because the question “Who is pondering” already implies that there IS a self. Good point. Simple. Seen. Question dropped.

BESTAAT ER WERKELIJK EEN AFGESCHEIDEN IK?
spontane reacties:
dat voelt zo
er is zeker een besef dat ik besta
er is een gevoel van afgescheidenheid. Soms. Niet altijd. Wordt opgeroepen door dat statement.
weerstand: dit leidt nergens toe.
wat maakt het eigenlijk uit of er een zelf is of niet?
wat zou dat voor iets moeten zijn, een zelf?
The question “Who am I?” I can't answer, but the question “Am I ?” I can answer with 100% certainty.

- there is no self anywere ....
what comes up:
blank. nothingness.
subtle feelings of inadequacy followed by the thought: “maybe the self consists of a bundle of these feelings of inadequacy, of being not OK”
I have no idea what this self should look like or where to look for it. I know Santa Claus is an illusion, but I know where to find him. This self-illusion I can't localise. What is it? A fantasy? A conglomerate of conditioning?
restlessness....
judgement: it is selfish to be so preoccupied with getting rid of oneself. I shouldn't be so self-centered.
confidence + a little fear
dit gaat nergens over
focus on this, can you do that? Lex?
I just started to do some "Work" in the spirit of Byron Katie and I find it inspiring. Also I really like to attend satsangs and maybe the forthcoming SAND congress. I do this with another motivation than this work, but if you think it interferes I will stop these activities for the period of our commitment, but not wholeheartedly.
Books about advaita e.g. I can let rest, no problem.

I like to thank you for your commitment and effort, but somehow I feel that that is inappropriate or maybe even hypocrite.

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Tue May 29, 2012 11:30 am

BESTAAT ER WERKELIJK EEN AFGESCHEIDEN IK?
spontane reacties:
dat voelt zo
er is zeker een besef dat ik besta
er is een gevoel van afgescheidenheid. Soms. Niet altijd. Wordt opgeroepen door dat statement.
weerstand: dit leidt nergens toe.
wat maakt het eigenlijk uit of er een zelf is of niet?
wat zou dat voor iets moeten zijn, een zelf?
The question “Who am I?” I can't answer, but the question “Am I ?” I can answer with 100% certainty.

- there is no self anywere ....
what comes up:
blank. nothingness.
subtle feelings of inadequacy followed by the thought: “maybe the self consists of a bundle of these feelings of inadequacy, of being not OK”
A feeling of not being OK, is it always there or does it come and go?
I have no idea what this self should look like or where to look for it. I know Santa Claus is an illusion, but I know where to find him. This self-illusion I can't localise. What is it? A fantasy? A conglomerate of conditioning?
restlessness....
judgement: it is selfish to be so preoccupied with getting rid of oneself. I shouldn't be so self-centered.
confidence + a little fear
We are not trying to get rid of or change anything, just to look and see if there really is a self in experience or only the thought or sense ''I''.

A little fear or fear? If there is fear no problem thats normal, this might sound weird but can you look behind this fear? Is anything there anything there having the fear?

I just started to do some "Work" in the spirit of Byron Katie and I find it inspiring. Also I really like to attend satsangs and maybe the forthcoming SAND congress. I do this with another motivation than this work, but if you think it interferes I will stop these activities for the period of our commitment, but not wholeheartedly.
Books about advaita e.g. I can let rest, no problem.

I like to thank you for your commitment and effort, but somehow I feel that that is inappropriate or maybe even hypocrite.
Byron katie wont interfere I guess the rest is not necessary at all, life is satsang, you have been going to satsangs for how long? Still your here... Whats your other motivation if I may ask?

Anyway I'm not your teacher its up to you ;) As long as you focus on this.

Thank me in the end Lex :)
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Tue May 29, 2012 3:24 pm

A feeling of not being OK, is it always there or does it come and go?
Mostly it isn't there. It's just that this sense of separation seems to have something to do with feeling inadequate. Do you think it is worth/relevant putting it under the microscope?
We are not trying to get rid of or change anything
I see. My formulation was wrong. It is just that this self-judgement arises: I could be doing more useful things than self-investigating, especially if it turns out that there is no such thing. I can answer myself: In that case, let's get it over with, so there is room/time for other activities.
just to look and see if there really is a self in experience or only the thought or sense ''I''.
There is an organism, that seems to be able to roam around independent of other emerging organisms, which is labeled "Lex" and which has learned to address itself as "I". Whatever-I-am is looking through its eyes, hearing through its ears, feeling (through) its body. So yes, I experience a self as a conscious being looking through Lex's eyes, inhabiting Lex's body. Maybe “experience” is not the right word, because I experience only sensations, not this self. Like I see my eyes only in the mirror. But because I can't experience it, doesn't mean it is not there. I just know it's there. In other words: I know that I exist beyond any doubt.

A little fear or fear?
It was really just a glimpse of fear. Can't remember it clearly. Can't reproduce it either at the moment.

The motivation for going to satsangs, is simply that afterwards I feel better, more harmonious, quiet, peaceful, open, etc. I find it very refreshing and feel “at home” with spiritual teachers. Also I love the truth.
I admit that I alwas have the hope in the back of my head that enlightenment might strike. :-)
when I write this down, I realise that in this way I am “leeching” on the realisation of other people.
So, yes, I'll refrain from satsangs and will look for myself. I see why this is better.

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Tue May 29, 2012 7:14 pm

Alright good to hear you say that you will stop that habbit for now, know that is a bit difficult and not exactly what you wanted to hear.

Alright, no fear now, what was the last time you were really scared or sad for example? Anything that comes to mind clearly.
Mostly it isn't there. It's just that this sense of separation seems to have something to do with feeling inadequate. Do you think it is worth/relevant putting it under the microscope?
Well are you really inadequate or not good enough? Or is that just a label put on certain actions or character traits by the constantly judging mind? Can you look behind the mind is anything behind it in control of it?
There is an organism, that seems to be able to roam around independent of other emerging organisms, which is labeled "Lex" and which has learned to address itself as "I". Whatever-I-am is looking through its eyes, hearing through its ears, feeling (through) its body. So yes, I experience a self as a conscious being looking through Lex's eyes, inhabiting Lex's body. Maybe “experience” is not the right word, because I experience only sensations, not this self. Like I see my eyes only in the mirror. But because I can't experience it, doesn't mean it is not there. I just know it's there. In other words: I know that I exist beyond any doubt.
A conscious being looking through your eyes? That sounds a bit out of this world to me... Lets get real here, nice concepts but not gonna help you see if there is a self or not! Totally forget about enlightenment and what thats going to be like, including the superpowers ;) But really lets just see if there is a self at all which can be enlightened. Just to be clear, this is not about my/our truth vs your or the satsang givers concept of the truth, its about the reality of right here and right now. Describe for me the right here and right now, no stories or concepts just plain and simple.

Alright man take the time needed, no rush, first look in reality then answer...
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby lex » Tue May 29, 2012 10:47 pm

Maybe I am biased by all the things I read or heard, could be, but what I found is from a sincere, fresh look. Maybe I put it in words in a clumsy way or I use “advaita speak”, but I took a honest look and this is what I saw: An organism through which I live. And I don't know if "I" can be separated from this organism. I can't say that I AM this organism, neither can I say that I am not. And I still maintain that I exist without any doubt, although I don't know WHAT I am.
The above is what I notice when I take an honest look right here, right now.

I am not interested in enlightenment or superpowers. Just in the truth and ending this compulsive search. Just that. I don't expect all my problems solved. Just some piece of mind and return to simplicity. Or is that already too much of an expectation?

Talking about fear, what comes up is not a recent fear, but a strong one, which I had when I was 15 years old. The situation: After a year of almost daily use of marihuana, I moved to Israel in a student exchange program. I was put in a family and came in a situation where I knew nobody. Also I found nobody I could relate too. I just studied and ate and slept and I was very shy and felt uncomfortable and lonely. One day I was alone in the house and I kind of lost my sense of self. I did not know what was happening. I panicked. Started to walk around in the room. I felt I had to vomit, but that didn't happen. I started to repeat my name and address in an attempt to get my identity back.
After that event I was send to a psychiatrist, was in a psychiatric ward, first in Israel, later in Holland. Back in Holland I felt totally alienated from my family, so I opted for voluntary psychatric treatment myself, believing that there I could be cured from whatever was wrong with me. The other patients in the psychiatric ward in Israel were very nice and sensitive and they were the first people I felt connected to in a long time. I remember I begged to stay there, but my parents insisted to get me back to Holland.
Well are you really inadequate or not good enough?
Well, like everybody, sometimes yes, mostly no. Of course sometimes something I set out to do fails.
Or is that just a label put on certain actions or character traits by the constantly judging mind?
I am lucky to have a not too judgemental mind. I just observed that the feeling of separation is somehow connected to the feeling “I'm inadequate”. One seems to evoke the other. Both don't show up a lot lately. I just mention it.
Can you look behind the mind is anything behind it in control of it?
Can't seem to find a controller. The mind is triggered by questions, reacts on events, and feedback by itself, associations. Sometimes something unexpected pops up out of the blue.
When I was fantasising as a child, which I did a lot, I noticed I could control my fantasies, but it was much nicer to let them evolve by itself. So there was a controller then. Also I can choose to stop breathing for a while.


I don't know if I have the right attitude in this process. I have no idea what is relevant or not, so I let me be guided by your questions like a blind man, trusting that you will lead me to the "gate". I see as my task to answer your questions as honest and profound as I can. Is that correct?

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Re: Ego applying for destruction.

Postby Life » Tue May 29, 2012 11:49 pm

Will respond more later thanks for the reply.

Indeed to ''the gate'' not through it.

What is noticed is that your trying to analyse your way into it and make this happen, or get to a permanent state. Its not like that lets keep it simple. Please describe brushing teeth and/or eating breakfast, what happens exactly? Around you, inside, outside, the body.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/


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