Looking for patient guide

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bayousun1
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Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Wed May 16, 2012 6:28 pm

Hello, Wanting to look further into non-duality, awareness. I have been following various teachers for the past several months and want to see what there is here.
Thank you.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby Damon Kamda » Wed May 16, 2012 8:57 pm

Hello bayousun1,

Welcome to LU.
Wanting to look further into non-duality, awareness.
Hmmm, that's quite broad, don't you think? Could you be a bit more specific? What is it that brings you here exactly?

What are you looking for?

Thanks!

Damon

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bayousun1
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Thu May 17, 2012 4:08 am

Hey, well I have been exploring teachings by various teachers of awareness and non-duality, watching video and reading. So there is a sense that "awareness" comes and goes but more on a cognitive level then anything, but with a reminder to relax and use pointers to look beyond the story, not be the story... I am not good with all the "proper" terminology. I know there has been a shift in my sense of I in the story. I release troubling thoughts easier and am more often able to not feel invested in outcomes and relaxing into "being" more however I still have buttons that get pushed because I am believing the story.
The feeling is like walking to the edge then "thinking" which distracts me from jumping even though the jump will be into a cool pool.
So I am looking for someone to talk me over the edge.
I know there are no bells and whistles that go off and I accept that this story, this body (I had to stop and think a minute there) arises from my own "imagination" and there is something that is unaffected by all that goes on in my world but is aware of all.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby Damon Kamda » Fri May 18, 2012 9:08 am

Thanks for the clarification.

What name do you prefer to be adressed by?

So, you've got a head full of stories about "awareness" and jumping off cliffs etc. ;-)

That's all fine and good, yet I want to invite you to drop these for a moment. Put them aside. If there's any value in them, then surely they'll be there when needed.

What we do here, on this forum, is explore the notion of self, the I, together.
And we do this in a very specific manner.
What I require of you is two things:

- a willingness to be honest in reporting what you actually experience, rather than talking theory and wildly speculating;
- the committment to see this through; this is not a random forum of philosophical or spiritual conjecture. What we offer here is the possibility to wake up once and for all, in real life. This is not a game.

If you're willing to commit to this, I'd be happy to continue with you.

If so, let's begin by identifying some of your expectations.

Reading these words:
I still have buttons that get pushed because I am believing the story
there is something that is unaffected by all that goes on in my world but is aware of all
makes me wonder again: what is it you are looking for exactly? What is your desire in exploring all of this? What image of how things should be are you chasing? Can you get a clear view of that and spell it out for me?

Thanks!

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bayousun1
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Fri May 18, 2012 4:03 pm

Hi. My name is Debbie. What I am looking for is clarity. My expectation is to feel connection to all, realize the I am everything, everything is me. Yes I am very analytical, something has to make sense ( what my thoughts say) but ready to feel the freedom of no self. I am very honest but may have a hard time articulating experience. I will see this through as long as you are gentle. In the realm of no self there is awareness of the constructs of the mind, like watching a movie.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby Damon Kamda » Fri May 18, 2012 8:13 pm

Hi Debbie,

Don't worry, I don't usually bite (well, not in the first ten pages of posting that is... ;-P).
Yes I am very analytical
That's a great asset! Laser-sharp, analytical focus will be your best friend in this process, so use it!
I am very honest but may have a hard time articulating experience.
Sure. It can be difficult sometimes to put into words what is being experienced. The intent to be as clear as possible is enough, so that's great.

So, let's simply begin by looking at what you wrote:
My expectation is to feel connection to all
What I want you to clearly understand is that the work we do at this forum is not meant to trigger certain types of altered states of consciousness. Sure, this may happen (or not), yet these are entirely besides the point. What these conversations are intended to do is invite you to simply look directly at what is already the case right now, regardless of whatever state of consciousness may be happening. There's no particular feeling associated with this.
realize the I am everything, everything is me
So, right now.
What is this I, this me?
What does I, me mean to you?
What do the words refer to?
In the realm of no self there is awareness of the constructs of the mind, like watching a movie.
What is the realm of no self?

If I'm going too fast or you need some further clarification, let me know.

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bayousun1
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Fri May 18, 2012 11:10 pm

The I and me is everything and nothing. I guess my brain wants to imagine that there is a something, perhaps neutrons/protrons some energy force that exists and is part of the energy that creates something called tree or body. So if I can loose attachment to these labels what is left is a pure being energy. When I look out my window I see tree, water, grass, dogs but I know that my eyes see that and the brain identifies based on what I have been told. I went to a workshop long ago with a gal who said that until something is named we do not see it.
Glad to be able to talk this through and empty my head.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby Damon Kamda » Sat May 19, 2012 11:06 am

Good stuff, Debbie.

But let's zoom in some more and get really focused.
The I and me is everything and nothing
That's quite abstract. Can you give me a detailed description of how the I and me show up in actual experience. How, where and as what? The I and me that has the ability to be everything and nothing, in what way is it here?

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bayousun1
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Sun May 20, 2012 12:25 am

Well I have looked at this all day. In that statement I am referring to the "I" that has no name. Then there is the "I" that is the avatar of the mind that goes to work and gardens. The "I" that has no name ( I like to call essence) is the secret. I have no idea where it is or how it shows up but when I turn my attention inward to a relaxed peace I am amazed at how this system is able to be aware of everything (sound, light, air..) and I know that "it" is always aware even if I am not paying attention. It's the something that tells you to stop before driving out the driveway and getting hit by the car the mind did not notice. Maybe the stuff we have created over the thousands of years has blocked our ability to be in touch with that essence.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun May 20, 2012 8:43 am

Thanks, Debbie.

So, just to make sure we're on the same page:

You're talking about two I's here:

-"The avatar of the mind": would it be fair to call this the character, the role?
-"The I that has no name", what you refer to as the "secret" or essence.

There's a couple of questions this raises here:

- Which one these I's, if any, is you?
- The essence you speak of, if as you say you have no idea where and how it is, then how do you know it's there? Can you tell me more about this I that has no name? What makes it an I, is it personal in any way? What is its nature, its substance? How did it come into being? How many of these essences exist? Does it exist at all? What IS it?

Can you go into some detail about this?

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bayousun1
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Sun May 20, 2012 2:32 pm

Good questions. I'll get back to you on that. :)

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun May 20, 2012 8:29 pm

Great, looking forward to your response.

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bayousun1
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Mon May 21, 2012 3:08 am

Well I have discovered that I do not know how to do the quote feature.
- Which one these I's, if any, is you?
* Who is "you".
*The brain tells "me" ( which is the brain talking to itself) that the brain has constructed a "me" that it believes exists. But This brain does not know why it has constructed this "me", what is the purpose of this body?
So are they both "me"? or There is no "me", "you", "I", than who is doing the typing?

- The essence you speak of, if as you say you have no idea where and how it is, then how do you know it's there?
*I am not a religious person so do not believe in Gods but think more in a scientific way that it is cellular in nature, a feeling. Like when you are in the dark but can sense the presence of something near you. I know I am painting myself into a corner here with science and cells which is all the work of the mind.

Can you tell me more about this I that has no name? What makes it an I, is it personal in any way? What is its nature, its substance? How did it come into being? How many of these essences exist? Does it exist at all? What IS it?
*Science tells us that what we perceive as space, like the space in a room, is actually filled with matter. So maybe all things are just a form of matter bouncing along bumping into various forms of matter and reacting. I believe in such things as meditation for peace actually reducing crime, so what is the energy that is shared by all?

Yikes. I guess "I don't know" would be the best answer to all those questions, lots of speculation here. What the hell is "IT". :)

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby Damon Kamda » Mon May 21, 2012 9:24 am

Well I have discovered that I do not know how to do the quote feature.
Haha, yes, people often have problems with this: I've created a post detailing how to do it here:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660
Lots of speculation indeed
Yikes. I guess "I don't know" would be the best answer to all those questions, lots of speculation here. What the hell is "IT". :)
So, let's stop all this wild speculation for now and just focus on what is obvious- i.e. what can be observed to be the case right now, in your experience.

Allright?

Right now, in this very moment, locate the YOU.
Where is it? What is its form, its shape? What does it do? Describe it to the best of your ability.

See if you can resist the temptation to look for anwsers in intellectual speculation, but simply explore the totality of what's being experienced at this very moment, directly.

Is there a YOU?

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bayousun1
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Re: Looking for patient guide

Postby bayousun1 » Mon May 21, 2012 12:09 pm

There is something that hears sound, feels touch, sees color, tastes, and smells. It has a shape like what is called body and goes to work. This is being observed by the mind. This is the "me" that others point to and talk to.


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