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Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:23 pm
by Ilona
Hi Laura. thank you fro message. i am happy to hold your hand while you do the work :)

please introduce yourself and tell about your journey so far. where you from, how did you find us, what is your searching experience so far.

one thing that is very important here is complete honesty. write only what feels true, no maybe, guess, perhaps. and please write at least once a day, till you get through with the process.

sending love.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:45 pm
by Laura
Yeah! I found the thread. And I am happy to have my hand held:).
I was told about LU from a new friend - Marty, who worked with you a month or so ago. He didn't say much - only that I should check the site out and I was very drawn.
I have been searching for as long as I can remember. Since I was little having the thought "I want to go home" - and not really knowing what that meant - but feeling the intense longing. Have done lots of reading, retreats, and workshops with nonduality teachers. I had an experience last year after a week with Adyashanti. It was after sitting with the question "Who am I beyond name and form" for a while. In short, I lost the sense of an "I" and felt complete joy, and choiceless, fearless, freedom for a few hours. At the time, I also thought that something was not complete, because I did not feel the oneness that everyone talks about. I kept looking at the lady on the plane next to me and feeling like a separate something inside this body. Then a fearful thought that this body living in complete freedom would be a burden for my husband and children brought me slowly back to "reality".

I still can connect with a memory/feeling of that experience and that joy/freedom, but it seems to be getting further and further away.

Lost it???
So looking forward to doing the work, L

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:58 pm
by Ilona
Dear Laura, thank you for intro.

what we are doing here is not about state of oneness. it's not about a fleeting state that comes and goes. it does not require meditation or sitting in silence. it's about showing the mind what is real and what is imaginary. the closest thing i can compare it to is realisation that santa/ tooth fairy or whatever fantasy world creatures are not real.

children believe in magic. adults know the difference between reality and imagination. so once the illusion of i is seen, it can not be unseen, same way as you can never believe that santa was real. one way realization. once you see it, you see it. it does not disappear.

ok, let's start.
there are two mayor things in the way of seeing what is the way it is- expectation and/ or fear.
tell me, precisely, what do you expect from this conversation. in full and honestly. what are you hopes, fears and desires surrounding seeing through illusion of separation.

you have mentioned that it may be a burden for your family- it's actually the biggest gift that you can give them :)
so list everything you find relevant.

looking forward to your answer.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm
by Laura
What do I expect? Hope? I want it to be like my time on that plane - where I felt such freedom. All seeking was gone. I knew there was nothing that needed to be done - or better that the world in that moment and any given moment no matter what was happening was perfect. No ambition, no restlessness, just watching thoughts/feelings come and go without attachment. Just wondering what would happen next with excitement, peace. Great love, openness.
Greatest desire is for the end of seeking. And then a thought that the end of seeking might be boring:).
And fears. Definitely fear. I was afraid to start this conversation with you. Clinching in the gut. Fear of loosing control, of going crazy, of being seen as crazy, of being a burden, of hurting others. And that clinching seems like some wordless terror of not existing? Disappearing.

Phew, that is a strong thought.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:29 pm
by Ilona
great, now let's look at that fear..

let this thought in:

there is no self at all, no me/ i as in zero. no me controlling, managing life, no me at all.

when you feel the fear, feel it there and do not fight it. where is it in the body?

ask it to come closer. don't look at the content of fear, but the mechanism of it. it is here to protect, a built in security system. it is working perfectly and all is trying to do is keep you safe. thank it for that.

once you allow it to be present without resistance ask it to reveal it's wisdom, literally talk to fear. bow to it. express appreciation, make friends. ask it what is it protecting.

what needs to be protected.
listen to the answers. wait for them to come.

gently take a look, what is behind the fear.

what do you see?

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:43 pm
by Laura
Thanks you for the questions. I must go to work now. I will take time with these and respond later tonight or tomorrow am. (Am in the US on MST).
So appreciate this work!
Love, Laura

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:26 am
by Laura
Hi again,
When I let in the thought that there is no me at all... Mix of relief/excitement and fear. Fear is in my throat and belly. When I ask fear what it is is protecting a me, a sense of a me, a sense of a me controlling life. It is protecting an I that it thinks is managing things. Behind the fear... I can't really find anything. Space. Just seeing what is here, present, now. It is a vague sense of just what is happening?

And I know I have read so much that I have a thought I am just repeating what I have read. But it feels like more then that.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:54 pm
by Laura
Good morning! Are you there? Did you see my last post?

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:40 pm
by Ilona
Yes, I'm here. :)

Let's take a closer look at control. What is it that you control? How do you do that?
What is on automatic and what isn't?

If there was no control over what happens, what would be lost?

Sending love.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:10 pm
by Laura
Hmm.... I don't really control anything. There is a thought 'I will start typing now' that "I" think I have and then I notice that typing doesn't happen, a trip to the bathroom, letting the dog out, sitting back down, a long pause - and then voila, typing begins and I think I was in control? I see that truly, I control nothing. It is all just happening. A habit of thought that takes credit, feels pride... I, me, started typing... but it started when it started. This body seeming to be some what of a robot, following some mysterious director: go to bathroom, let dog out, now sit, now type. And so it keeps on going, on and on and on and the next thing happens, and the next thing and the next. Automatic.

And what is lost? First, response, a lot of heavy responsibility!! Second, imagined control. A fantasy. And loss of some sort of excitement? There is a fear life will be boring.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:34 pm
by Ilona
Great work. Life is not boring, how can it be? without struggle to manage everything that happens, trying to control, there is always sense of freshness and wonder.

Next step- trip to the nature.
If you find a park, sit there for a bit, watch how all moves and wiggles, how wind blows, clouds moove. People, animals, moove, everything is one movement, including your body, breath and thoughts.

Watch the totality, notice- there is no noticer separate from noticing and noticed.

Write the observations that occurred.


If you can't find a park, a view through a window is fine too.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:19 pm
by Laura
O.k. I watched out the window... noticing the movement of the branches, birds, clouds, thoughts, and at first seeing them all as separate... and then peeking into the rabbit hole of a sense that the mystery that is moving these hands to type now is probably also blowing the wind, moving that branch, wagging the dogs tail. And without the I thought, then there is just noticing. Yet we still seem separate, kind of. On the verge of something...

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:46 pm
by Ilona
ok, look with senses, vision, hearing. not thinking. the answer is not in thoughts, but in what is here when there are no thoughts. what is real? as in what does not disappear when you stop believing in it.

thoughts can only describe what is when we communicate about it. it's not reality, but reality includes thought.

describe the immediate experience as it is happening.

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:24 pm
by Laura
Tree branches lightly bobbing, waving. clouds drifting, grasses fluttering. hands typing, letters appearing. stomach gurgling. dog body moving up and down. school bus driving by. water flowing in creek. dog eyes blink, these eyes blink. Ducks fly into view, land. What is here when there are no thoughts. Just this. Very simple. Sweet. Still.

And I don't experience everything as one movement, yet. And there still seems to be a "noticer" - witness of all this.

Very excited to keep working...
Thanks, Laura

Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:16 pm
by Ilona
awesome! great noticings. now lets look at that witness...

i breath, breathing is happening.. is there an i that does breathing or is it happening effortlessly by itself. it's a simple question of linguistics. what is truer to say?

i witness.. same stuff. is there i doing witnessing or is witnessing simply happening?
attention is happening
focus is happening,
awareness is awaring of all that is rising as experience,

where is the i in witnessing? is it not just a label that we use to label action, just because the way that language is set?

can I experience movement? is experience happening TO a me?

dig here. going well :))
sending love