Laura, this thread is for you.

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:44 pm

Hi,
I have been reading through posts, and your blog, and the book and feeling soooo excited, tears are even coming! Feeling on the verge of finding/getting something I have been looking for/trying to get my whole life.
Thank you soooo much for this web-site and working with me and what you are doing here. What a gift!

i witness. Witnessing happens. Yes, of course! I get that breathing happens and 'I' doesn't need to take any credit or have control. Body is being breathed. Obvious. So why not the same for witnessing. No 'I' needs to take credit or be in control. ...same stuff. I need to sit with this one for a while. dig in, sink in. I will write more later.

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Ilona
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:46 pm

yes! you are seeing it!! awesome ;)) cool, write a bit more when it sinks in...

yey!!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:15 pm

Hi there,
I have been going over the "I witness" thing all night - even woke up in the middle of the night chanting "I witness"... and the phase sounding more and more absurd. How can an i witness? A thought witness? And as I sit this morning it is true that the witnessing just happens. No choice in what is being witnessed. Eyes move around the room without my control and take in different sights. Sounds happening, being witnessed. And I am more interested to see what will come next. What sight, sound, smell will be presented. A present. It still feels like they are happening at a distance, outside of this body/mind. Still a life with a center in this body/mind. And a wanting to pop beyond that.

Just fun to feel the little shifts/openings happening.
Love.

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:36 pm

Lots of witnessing happening. All that really happens perhaps. I think I am ready for more... another question?
Laura

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:19 pm

Hi Ilona, I am burning. Hope to hear from you soon. Longing for freedom intense. Who is longing? Who isn't free? Who is wanting guidance, help, hand holding? Reading the gateless gatecrashers. Laura

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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Is it you burning or burning is happening?
Notice that burning and surrender to it. It's all good. let whatever comes up be ok and meet all with openness.

Is there a you in any form or shape in reality?
What is real?


Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:37 pm

Burning is happening. (Both inside this body and in the fireplace next to me;)) Pressure, heat in the chest, belly. Not a problem. Interesting. Now rising to the throat. It seems good. Something happening. I can't really find a me anywhere. It seems like a me is only a dream. Right now, a me seems like a vague dream like thing. Vapors that are difficult, no impossible, to grab hold of. "I" am disappearing. Or better stated, was never really there. A dream. I am having trouble even focusing to answer the question - Is there a you in reality? The horse with a blue blanket on lying down in the pasture outside is more interesting. The flames of the fire. Even the misspelled word that just got corrected are more interesting. A me... like trying to remember a dream that is just beyond the minds reach - at this moment. Perhaps it will come back later. What is real? The horse. The fire. The cup. Sound boring? NO, the horse just lifted it's head and is looking at me. The foothills are covered with snow. Not sure if I was in a dream before, or this is a dream now. Dream of a me or dream of no me. Feeling a little like the body/mind is on drugs. Does any of this make sense?

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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:42 pm

Sound like you are having great night :) love fire.

Living life believing in me as a manager of life is dreaming.
Seeing that there is no I, just life lifeing is being awake. Of course, words mean nothing, they are just description. What is can only be experienced. And it's not found in thoughts about experience, but in raw sensations + thoughts about it.

Let the burning do its job. :) we'll talk tomorrow.
Lots of love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:18 pm

Hi Ilona,
Today the sense of a Me is fully here. I am feeling frustrated and the burning just feels like the old incessant seeking, yearning. It seems my mind/something understands the answers to these pointing questions, but only intellectually? I can see that there isn't a doer. I get that there is no self, that Laura and everything that comes with that label is part of a story, just thoughts. And I can imagine life without that story, or feel that for brief moments, but doesn't seem like a realization. The seeking is still so strong. I want to get this. And no 'I' to get this. Something sees that but obviously not totally. And we are having this dialogue to get something. Aren't we. And then no WE. Round in circles of thought.

Last night, after the fire:), kids, cooking, I was in a nice place, and then interestingly, I found out that a friend had been making fun of ME and my spiritual search and the ME jumped backed in full force and was pissed. So thoughts happened around she shouldn't judge, and anger happened, and a belief in a ME and a HER definitely happened. I just am hitting the wall, exhausted by the whole damn thing - living that is. There is a voice that is saying you are never going to get this so just stop the search and go back to a life as usual. Although it feels truly unbearably dull. And then I guess another though that comes in to say there is no YOU to get this. Circles again.

Help. Thank you for being here/there.
Laura

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Ilona
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:01 am

Let's look at that ME. Bring it up to a close examination, put it under a microscope.

Sit with eyes closed and find that sense- ME. Where is it? Can it be located in the body? Does body have a clear line, that separates here from there?

Feel the sense of aliveness, being (verb), focus on sensations and sounds, listen to distant sounds, where are they being heard? Is there a ME that hears them?

The sense that has always been here, since you remember, one that never changes, regardless of age or location where the body is- is it personal? Is it here if you label it 'me'? Is it here if you don't label it at all?

Really look deep here, ask ME to come forward, write what comes up.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:43 pm

I wrote long answers to all your questions this am - and for some reason it didn't post. Hmmm. Must be a chance to do it again, go deeper. So here goes more long ramblings/answers:
Let's look at that ME. Bring it up to a close examination, put it under a microscope.
O.k. sounds good.
Sit with eyes closed and find that sense- ME.
There seems to be two different senses of ME or me. The Me(capitals) seems to be all thoughts, pictures of a past, future, ideas, beliefs, and feelings that follow. It is a story being told: Laura, American, 48yo, MWF, two sons, lives in the mountains, likes this and that, does this and that. It feels rather flat, dull, removed. A thought.

Then there is another sense of me (not capitals). It is easy to find, but hard to describe. It is always here, present, available. It is alive, aware. Feels loving, kind, unattached, but not dull. It feels beyond familiar. Feels like home. And typing that makes me tear up again (as I did in the first round of answering these questions). I have always said I wanted to go home not really knowing what that meant. Could it be just coming home to this sense of me. (not ME) And I keep wanting to say about the sense of me: always here.
Where is it? Can it be located in the body?
The Me no. Only floating in thoughts. The sense of me? Does seem to be hanging in this body, heart, behind the eyes. Looking out from these eyes. Watching. A feeling.
Does body have a clear line, that separates here from there?
Yes, body seems to end at skin, surface area. The me seems to be located in this body, but goes beyond. I can experience the tree outside and it feels like me stretches out to it. And then I can sense my children in the next room, sound, movement, energy. I think of when my kids were babies and being able to know they were awake in the next room, before they cried. I would even wake up in the middle of the night a few moments before they cried. Mother's intuition? me extending beyond my skin?

Feel the sense of aliveness, being (verb), focus on sensations and sounds, listen to distant sounds, where are they being heard?
I hear the heater rumbling in the basement. Where is it being heard? The first thought is in the ear. I see pictures of the inner ear, and ear drum, and the textbook pages. Learned that hearing happens in the ear, waves travel to the drum. But Is that true? The heater is being heard here.
Is there a ME that hears them?
This one gets me. Intellectual understanding answers - no. No ME, only thoughts, thoughts don't hear. Only hearing happening. I was thinking of the tree. It is easy to see that the tree is growing. Leaves have been getting bigger and bigger every day. But is there a Me in the tree. Does the tree need to claim that it, TREE, is doing the growing? No, growing is happening. Growing a verb with out a need for a subject. Except perhaps Life. Hearing is happening. Life. Closer.
The sense that has always been here, since you remember, one that never changes, regardless of age or location where the body is- is it personal? Is it here if you label it 'me'? Is it here if you don't label it at all?
O.K. this is the sense of me. (Again not ME - Laura) The sense of being alive, that doesn't age or change at all. And it definitely doesn't need to be labeled. Always here. I'm not sure if it is personal - taking that to mean unique. I have always thought that that sense seemingly located in this body was different from the sense in that body, but how could I know? I don't know what it's like in any other body. Separate bodies seems real. When that body is poked, I don't experience it. Hmmm.
Really look deep here, ask ME to come forward, write what comes up.
When I ask ME to come forward what comes up is waiting. And waiting. And waiting. Nothing happens. No man behind the curtain. Waiting. O.K. Little voice, (perhaps there is a man behind the curtain) too soft to hear. Hiding like a mouse. Sadness. ME spent so much time working on this ME, working on being good and kind and lovable. (tears) ME is exhausted, wants a vacation, but is sad for all that struggle to be for naught, or sad to give up. Surrender the fight. I tell ME that it's o.k., the struggle wasn't for naught, here we are, and it really is o.k. Thankful for all ME has done, been willing to do. ME can take a break, a big break. ME can retire:) Sit back, relax, and let life do it's thing. Come along for the ride.

My head feels very fuzzy right now. Talking to a dream character, being in a dream.
llona, what do you make of all this?
And as always, so thankful to have someone to dialogue about this with!!!!

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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Wow, great work.

So this ME that is a character in the story can not be found in reality, can not be touched.
Can it be that it's all made up? Like a fairy tale. Can it be that nothing comes up when ME is called, because there really is no me at all?

What does word ME point to anyway?

And the me that you call the aliveness is not me at all? Does this feeling of being, perception of senses and thought exist without label? How about having another look, with closed eyes, at this feeling, is it really located in the body and skin is a barrier? Skin is a touch organ, like ears are hearing organ. Do all sensations happen inside the body? With eyes closed, check, is there inside and outside? Where is the line?

Doing great, by the way. Keep digging.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:23 pm

Oh my, I feel a bit like my 11 yo son who is pretty sure there is no Santa Clause, and most his 5th grade friends have figured it out, let the story go, but he is still invested some how and doesn't want to fully go there yet. And then I am reassured by this analogy, since I don't know any high schoolers who are still holding on to that dream!

So I can't find a ME. And this whole Laura story, is just that, a story. She can't be found. A word, label. And when I call ME, nothing does come. That feeling of sadness, not a ME, just sensation and thoughts.
The word ME points to the story. What I call Laura/ME are memories, future imagined plans, lists of identity characteristics, preferences, tendencies, all mental pictures and words used to describe this character. Content of lots and lots of thoughts. Nothing substantial that can be found in reality. And the Me thoughts change on a whim, when the story changes - she is nice, she is mean, she is young, she is old. Nothing ultimately. Nothing true. Just fairy tales about this fictional character.

There is sadness again - perhaps about giving up the fairy tale? There has been such love for the character Laura and fun playing her that mind doesn't want to let identification go? Believing in Santa was fun. And I do know from the glimpse last year that life beyond belief was beyond fun! So...

The Aliveness. Yes, it exists without label. Label is secondary. Feeling of being, perception. Always here. Just this. When I close my eyes, this feeling, aliveness, isn't limited to skin. It seems to expand out...forever I guess. The body disappears and all that is left is the feeling without boundaries. There is the sense that the body is within this feeling of being, rather than the feeling in the body. A feeling of expansiveness. With eyes closed, inside and outside get blurry... A vague ocean of aliveness which contains bodies, trees, computers, houses, mountains, stars.
And I can't really place where sensations are happening? Fingers do feel keyboard. Sounds are all around/surround. Thoughts can't be located. And the sense of being is everywhere, no line. hmmm....

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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:55 pm

great answer. i see that you the shift is already happening. the sadness sometimes is visiting as we say good bye to something or someone.
There has been such love for the character Laura and fun playing her that mind doesn't want to let identification go?
the story of Laura is a beautiful story and it is not going anywhere. it will keep being narrated as it is now. nothing will change. in fact, the love for laura is only gonna grow, as from my experience here. what changes is the attachment. it get's looser and looser. there is less and less glue that holds the story about suffering together.

there is nothing real that can ever get lost. only that which is not true falls away. the love is here to stay. :) and grow.

so how is it feeling today? any noticings worth mentioning, big or small?
The Aliveness. Yes, it exists without label. Label is secondary. Feeling of being, perception. Always here. Just this. When I close my eyes, this feeling, aliveness, isn't limited to skin. It seems to expand out...forever I guess. The body disappears and all that is left is the feeling without boundaries. There is the sense that the body is within this feeling of being, rather than the feeling in the body. A feeling of expansiveness. With eyes closed, inside and outside get blurry... A vague ocean of aliveness which contains bodies, trees, computers, houses, mountains, stars.
And I can't really place where sensations are happening? Fingers do feel keyboard. Sounds are all around/surround. Thoughts can't be located. And the sense of being is everywhere, no line. hmmm....
this is spot on. you are seeing it already. if you get to go to nature, park, just sit for a while and notice that movement, where everything wiggles and moves as totality. including the body, breath and thoughts.

report what you find.

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Laura
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Re: Laura, this thread is for you.

Postby Laura » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:58 pm

Hi again,
Today is interesting. I feel rather detached, nonreactive, but present. A friend called to talk about our mutual friend who made fun of me and there was no energy around it, no anger or hurt really. Where I could have held on to something like this for days - it disappeared. I am looking forward to seeing her, with nothing needing to be said or done. Nothing very personal.
Also noticing not terribly bothered by extra body weight today. Just noticing full middle without good or bad judgement. Just aware interest.
When I stop to notice, I feel tingling in my body more than normal. Aliveness.
As I watched the park outside my window, everything really wiggling in a rain storm, I felt almost like I think a baby feels, just watching everything move without comment, label, identification. A thing we call an arm moves into field of vision, don't have a thought yet that that thing belongs to a me. Just watching the play of everything including the thoughts, breath, movements in this body. And can see that from this baby like view, I don't know the separateness of things, don't look at one tree as being separate from another. And I feel interest, excitement. Just a big wide wonderful world. I want to say: Hey, look at that, and look at that and look at that. And while noticing, I began to feel more like the space in which all these things are all dancing together.

Then I noticed my son got home from school and that global space sense was replaced by interacting with him. Still nonreactive, but a bit of a contraction, and more thoughts.

And so grateful for you and this process. Thank you. Laura


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