We start a conversation here, if you are new.

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Elizabeth
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:41 pm

Oh yes, such a joke when we realize how much energy we had wrapped up in our problems. They pretty much made up a me, so funny.

OK, No one to do, own, choose, or control.
Any boundaries to self?


Love.

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Iida
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Iida » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:58 pm

"My-problem-me" , should it be named that and would it be easier to se what it is that way. :)

Any boundaries to self... ?

When i feel into it, no, I can't find them. I can find the boundaries of this body, but not self.

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Iida
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Iida » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:00 pm

Thank you so much for this discussion so far, Elizabeth! It's midnight over here so I'm going to bed but will be happy to continue tomorrow.

Love, Marie

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Elizabeth
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:03 pm

G'night Marie. sleep well, that was a lot of work.
Elizabeth

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Iida
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Iida » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:56 am

Good night to you too Elizabeth. I checked that your timezone is either 8 or 9 hours behind the one I'm in (Eastern Europe, Finland). So When Iwake up, you might be about to go to sleep.
I'm already awake. ;) So good morning to you too!
Boy it was a day yesterday... Will see how today turns out!

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Elizabeth
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Elizabeth » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:35 pm

Good night to you too Elizabeth. I checked that your timezone is either 8 or 9 hours behind the one I'm in (Eastern Europe, Finland). So When Iwake up, you might be about to go to sleep.
I'm already awake. ;) So good morning to you too!
Boy it was a day yesterday... Will see how today turns out!
I have to take off (very early here, you are right on the time zones) but wish to leave you with some questions, I'll have a few people look at them as well, so they can check for any clarifications which would be useful to you at this time. Please answer them as fully as you can, looking at your direct experience. That's the key to all this :-)
Then, if you like, can add you into a sort of support group, with some resources for the newly awake. We have a large and diverse group, I am pretty sure you will resonate with some. Online sangha, Facebook.
Either way, I'll leave you with my email, and you can access this forum, so some points of contact no matter what?

1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

2) Please explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

3) How does it feel to be liberated?

4) how would you describe this process of awakening to somebody who has never heard about 'no you', but was curious?
Have a great afternoon, way over there!
Love, Elizabeth

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Iida
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Iida » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:47 pm

Ok, I'm happy to be added to that group. Thank you so much for everything, wishing you all the best!
I'll return to these questions soon.

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Iida
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Iida » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:05 pm

Ok, back to the questions.

It's great that it's emphasized here frequently about writing as honestly as one can and looking at one's direct experience. These are very important reminders.

Big questions. Honestly, when I got these questions, there was a strong urge to go and read what others have responded to these and the will to respond ”correctly rose. Well, seeing that's just a thought, I didn't follow the temptation though. I also came to realize that this is not a ”test” I want to ”pass” before this is really clearly understood from that direct experience. That's how the thought went, but now I can see that that too was a short identification with an I who wanted to ”pass a test”. So...

1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

There are moments when identification with an idea of a me /my happens, kind of like from an old but persistent habit. But each time easier the identification vanishes and it is seen that it was just that: an old habit. In daily life, long hours pass without any sense of me, any do-ership.

When looking at it directly, it it clearly seen that there really isn't ANY real or solid entity called ”me” and this diffuses also all thoughts of things (or thoughts, emotions etc.) being MY things. A me cannot be located anywhere.


2) Please explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

The self is an illusory sense of a me through which us humans are used to look at everything ”around” us. The sense of self and this identification with it creates an illusion of duality: if there is a sense of ”me”, then a sense of everything that is perceived to be ”outside” that separate human being will be considered ”other-than-me”. This illusory ”me” starts to form little by little when we are children, for axample in situations where adults tell us things like ”you are a [this and this kind of a] girl/boy”. Identification with it is extremely common: most humans aren't familiar in any way with even an idea of no self, let alone any direst knowing of this being the case. In order to stay ”alive”, the separate sense of me constantly needs to label things, name them good/bad/melikes/medoesntlike/nice/awful... The sense of self (identification with a me) also creates a fear of the death of what the me considers MY body and mind. Avoiding to feel this fear, the me wants to own different things: labeling them with MY son/bag/experience/feeling/home/country/pain and thus the fear of death is often masked by the fear of losing these things that it considers MINE.

3) How does it feel to be liberated?

Almost unbearably light. It feels like something the I never experienced before (at least to this intensity), but at the same time like somehow familiar and very natural. There is this amazement how simple this is. The world looks in a way the same but in a way completely different: the metaphore of ”seeing everything for the first time” really isn't so much a metaphore but the actual experience: everything looks crisp and clear, colours are very vivid. Laughter often comes when some little (or bigger) detail is seen and understood very differently than it was. Tears of relief come too. Just like a long, long dream had ended. Right now there is this peace of clarity: things are the way they are and there's nothing that needs fixing (the I used to invest huge amount of energy into fixing this and fixing that, changing this and that etc.).

4) how would you describe this process of awakening to somebody who has never heard about 'no you', but was curious?

Can you remember some occasion when you realized that something you absolutely had believed to be true, actually isn't? Have you ever come to realize that your view on something prevented you from seeing the thing as it is? Probably yes.Or that your view on something just completely shifted? How would the world change if you didn't exist? What if the same happened in a larger context: everything you had believed is you, was be seen to be an illusion but still you would be there to see all this and function just fine? That's one description of awakening.
Our sense of ”me”, what we believe we are, constitutes of our body, things that have happened to us, feelings and thoughts and so on. In awakening, one sees that he/she is not any of these, and that even though they can't even say anymore who they are and they see that they are not who they thought they were, everything is fine. Even if it sounds strange, it's possible and very liberating.

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Elizabeth
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Elizabeth » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:48 pm

Hello Marie Sophie,
Seems very clear to me. No questions at the moment, someone else may have one, but I do hope that you read around the threads (there is a completed 'liberation' thread section) and see that the view is much the same for us all, still an amazement to me :-)
Many friends.
Will contact you soon, regardless.
Thanks for your work, and love.
Elizabeth

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Elizabeth
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Elizabeth » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:58 am

Hi Marie,
We feel you are clear and appreciated your descriptions. I hope this conversation helped a little, it was a pleasure here.
I will contact you by PM to invite you to a couple of groups on Facebook, which you are welcome to join. I'd be interested in the course you took, seemed effective :-)
Much joy, Elizabeth

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Iida
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Re: We start a conversation here, if you are new.

Postby Iida » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:47 am

Ok, we'll do that.
Once again, thanks ever so much for your questions and guidance!

Love,
Marie


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