"who" is the lostperrito?

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:56 pm

Hello Greg,

Just to make sure that you are clear about AE and thoughts about AE, here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down objects, emotions and daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:26 am

Just to make sure that you are clear about AE and thoughts about AE, here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
Hi Kay, my apologies, but I'll need one more day to respond as today was filled with packing, moving and settling in and I just now (8:25 pm EST on 8/24) saw your post to me. I'll compete the exercise tomorrow and get back to tomorrow night my time. Hope that is ok. Thanks, Greg

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:23 am

Hey Greg,

Take time to pack, move and settle in. Moving is a busy and stressful time...so just be with that. When you have settled, then come back to the thread....that is all fine with me.

Love, Kay
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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:14 am

Just break down objects, emotions and daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.
Kay, honestly I started off pretty well with this exercise this morning but as I got wrapped up in the days activities, I kept forgetting to do it, so some of this is reconstructed.

Train whistle: sound
Thought: train, nearby track, whistle is warning near intersection with road.

Yellow lemon and juice in glass of water: color/image
Bitter: taste
Thought: ugh, taste nasty but good for me; healthy

View of mountains, green, gray, angular, steep, rocky: color/ image
Beautiful: sensation
Rugged, hiking may be hard, caution needed to protect my sore hip: thought

Dishwasher: image
Note from Homeaway cabin owner that broken, part on order, service scheduled for Wednesday if part comes in: image
Homeaway rental too expensive to have a broken dishwasher, owner must be negligent, part may not arrive, service may be delayed: thought
Anger, frustration, worry: thoughts and/or emotions; difference?

Light blue, white rushing water over brown rocks: color/image
Water rushing, crashing: sound
Damp, earthy: smell
Wonder, beautiful, peacefulness: sensations or thought and/or emotions?

Red sky: color/ image
Beautiful: sensation
Sunset caused by setting sun, getting dark soon: thought

P.S. Kay, when I mentioned packing and moving, it was for one day only as we are traveling for a while and relocating every 2 to 4 weeks. Yesterday was a relocation day. I will be able to stay up to date with the thread with a few exceptions for a day or 2 only when we relocate. Thanks for understanding.

Greg

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:33 am

Hey Greg,
P.S. Kay, when I mentioned packing and moving, it was for one day only as we are traveling for a while and relocating every 2 to 4 weeks. Yesterday was a relocation day. I will be able to stay up to date with the thread with a few exceptions for a day or 2 only when we relocate. Thanks for understanding.
Thanks for clarifying, and when you need extra time to relocate…that is fine! Life happens :)

Thank you for those lovely examples. It seems that you are clear about what AE is. So LOOKING is simply seeing if what thought is pointing to/referring to points to AE of/as colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation or to more thought. If it is pointing to more thought…than it is simply a thought story aka thought fluff. And what do I mean by this?

If thought says that you saw a spectacular ‘sunrise’ yesterday…is that sunrise experience as you presently find it? No…so it is just thought story ie ‘imagination’. If however, the colours labelled as spectacular ‘sunrise’ is experience as you presently find it (ie now), then thought is pointing to actual experience as you presently find it (ie your direct, actual experience). In other words the colour that thought is referring to as a 'sunrise' is what is actually appearing now. Thought either points to actual experience as you presently find it...or it is pointing to thoughts about thought. As the spectacular ‘sunrise’ is not the current experience, it only equates to story...thought fluff/imagination – thoughts about thoughts.
Can you see this?


Okay…so let’s begin to look at the nature of thought. Seeing how thoughts work is a key component of seeing how the ‘me’ and the stories about a me living life seem to be created.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to observe and become aware of all thoughts. The first thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts but don’t engage with any of them. If you find yourself engaging with thoughts, just gently bring your attention to observing each thought.

When I ask you to look for the gap, the purpose of that looking is to slow thoughts down, as thoughts can be like a machine gun and fire a multitude of thoughts, one after the other and be very noisy, subtle, chaotic or calm. The objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you are sitting with eyes closed and all that is seen is the ‘blackness behind the eyes”. A thought might arise “oh look, there is a red glow appearing in the darkness behind my eyes” or “it feels strange sitting here watching for thoughts” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” – whatever thought is appearing.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought arises.

This is how to observe your thoughts:-
 Watch how each thought arises and subsides
 Watch and observe the gap (be it a short gap or a long gap) between each thought
 Notice how the current thought is passing,
 And watch and wait for the next thought to arise/appear.

Once you have watched how thoughts arise and subside and become aware of the gap, please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. This helps you to see each thought as it appears. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice? Did you find a thinker of thought in the gaps between the thoughts?

The gap that appears In the ‘waiting’ between each thought, can a thinker of thought be found?


Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:58 pm

If thought says that you saw a spectacular ‘sunrise’ yesterday…is that sunrise experience as you presently find it? No…so it is just thought story ie ‘imagination’. If however, the colours labelled as spectacular ‘sunrise’ is experience as you presently find it (ie now), then thought is pointing to actual experience as you presently find it (ie your direct, actual experience). In other words the colour that thought is referring to as a 'sunrise' is what is actually appearing now. Thought either points to actual experience as you presently find it...or it is pointing to thoughts about thought. As the spectacular ‘sunrise’ is not the current experience, it only equates to story...thought fluff/imagination – thoughts about thoughts.
Can you see this?
Yes, I can see this. You provided a good example which helped make it clear. Thank you.
Here is a step-by-step description of how to observe and become aware of all thoughts. The first thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts but don’t engage with any of them. If you find yourself engaging with thoughts, just gently bring your attention to observing each thought.
I did this exercise several times last night and today and was amazed at how hard it was to just relax and slow down my thoughts. Even when I felt like I wasn't having thoughts I oftentimes found myself thinking about not having thoughts! Yikes!! However, I was able to observe thoughts as they arose and passed and did actually experience moments of no thoughts in between. The moments of no thoughts were very peaceful.
Once you have watched how thoughts arise and subside and become aware of the gap, please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. This helps you to see each thought as it appears. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice? Did you find a thinker of thought in the gaps between the thoughts?
The gap that appears In the ‘waiting’ between each thought, can a thinker of thought be found?
I will proceed to this exercise tonight and tomorrow. Thanks Kay!

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:27 am

Hi Greg,
Here is a step-by-step description of how to observe and become aware of all thoughts. The first thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts but don’t engage with any of them. If you find yourself engaging with thoughts, just gently bring your attention to observing each thought.
I did this exercise several times last night and today and was amazed at how hard it was to just relax and slow down my thoughts. Even when I felt like I wasn't having thoughts I oftentimes found myself thinking about not having thoughts! Yikes!! However, I was able to observe thoughts as they arose and passed and did actually experience moments of no thoughts in between. The moments of no thoughts were very peaceful.
"Even when I felt like I wasn't having thoughts I oftentimes found myself thinking about not having thoughts!"...nice find, great observation! :)

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:04 am

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. This helps you to see each thought as it appears. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. Let me know how you went with observing thoughts as they appeared and disappeared. What did you notice? Did you find a thinker of thought in the gaps between the thoughts?
The gap that appears In the ‘waiting’ between each thought, can a thinker of thought be found?
Hi Kay. I'm finding that while engaged in daily activities, such as driving, shopping, cooking, planning the day, etc. that I have hard time slowing down thoughts such that a gap becomes evident; however, when I do manage to slow thoughts down, observe them arising and passing I am aware that there is no one thinking the non-thought. This makes sense rationally and intuitively because how could there be something thinking of something that doesn't exist, i.e., the gap between thoughts where there is no thought. Furthermore, it is unlikely that there is no thinker during no thoughts and suddenly a thinker materializing that thinks thoughts. That would mean there is a thinker winking in and out of existence with thoughts. That would be bizarre. Still, something resists the thought that I do not originate my thoughts. Something wants to believe "I" am in control and thinking through life's daily challenges and problems to get what "I" need. Something wants to believe "I" can learn from experience and apply those lessons (thoughts) in life to help others, protect the body, avoid danger, etc. What is this something, I wonder?

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:03 am

Hello Greg,
Something wants to believe "I" am in control and thinking through life's daily challenges and problems to get what "I" need. Something wants to believe "I" can learn from experience and apply those lessons (thoughts) in life to help others, protect the body, avoid danger, etc. What is this something, I wonder?
What is the AE of everything you wrote above? Is it the AE of colour, smell, taste, sound, sensation? Or is it AE of thought?

Looking is a nice simple thing - there is no need to over-complicate it.

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?

Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.


Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:35 pm

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.
I get it now! AE is all that there is. It just is. There is no experiencer required for AE. There is no thinker required for thought. It just is. There is no separation from AE. Right?

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:57 pm

Hello Greg,
Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.
I get it now! AE is all that there is. It just is. There is no experiencer required for AE. There is no thinker required for thought. It just is. There is no separation from AE. Right?
Yes…exactly! So how does it FEEL to see this? What changes when you saw this?

So, from that perspective, can you please answer the question I posed in my last post:-
Something wants to believe "I" am in control and thinking through life's daily challenges and problems to get what "I" need. Something wants to believe "I" can learn from experience and apply those lessons (thoughts) in life to help others, protect the body, avoid danger, etc. What is this something, I wonder?
What is the AE of everything you wrote above? Is it the AE of colour, smell, taste, sound, sensation? Or is it AE of thought?

Continuing on with looking at the nature of thought…as it is important to see how thought works to seemingly create the illusion of a separate self as we think it to be. Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?


Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:44 am

Yes…exactly! So how does it FEEL to see this? What changes when you saw this?
It feels liberating! Seriously. It feels calming, peaceful, and real. No stress, fear, worry, etc.
What is the AE of everything you wrote above? Is it the AE of colour, smell, taste, sound, sensation? Or is it AE of thought?
I think it is the AE of thought.
Where are they coming from and going to?
They just appear and disappear -- not coming from anywhere or going anywhere
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
I did nothing to make the original thought appear but it still seems like I can direct successive thoughts about the same subject, i.e., plans for the day. The original thought of researching local hikes just appears but I then I can think of several more succeeding thoughts of desired locations, views, length of hike, difficulty of hike. But once the last of these fades, the next thought appears without any direction.
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Nope
Can you predict your next thought?
Nope
Can you select from a range of tho
ughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
I can tell myself to think positively, and often times do, but that doesn't mean the next original thought will be positive, so no I cannot do so.
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Nope
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Nope
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Definitely not.
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Nope
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
Even when thoughts appear to have a logical sequence, such as when I mention above that I think a series of thoughts about planning activities for the day, specifically about local hikes, each thought is random in itself because an infinite number of thoughts about the same subject (hikes) could arise and I have no control over the one that does.

Hope this makes sense. :))

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:10 am

Hi Greg,
Yes…exactly! So how does it FEEL to see this? What changes when you saw this?
It feels liberating! Seriously. It feels calming, peaceful, and real. No stress, fear, worry, etc.
Lovely :) It is how you feel that tells you that something has shifted and that perception changes are happening, even if it they are subtle.
What is the AE of everything you wrote above? Is it the AE of colour, smell, taste, sound, sensation? Or is it AE of thought?
I think it is the AE of thought.
I would like for you to LOOK then and tell me, and not what you think, but tell me what is all you wrote is actually pointing to. Can you find any of it in AE, other than AE of thought?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
I did nothing to make the original thought appear but it still seems like I can direct successive thoughts about the same subject, i.e., plans for the day. The original thought of researching local hikes just appears but I then I can think of several more succeeding thoughts of desired locations, views, length of hike, difficulty of hike. But once the last of these fades, the next thought appears without any direction.
And how do you do that exactly? How is it known, without thought, that you thought those successive thoughts? How did you know what particular thoughts to think next, after the original thought? How did you know, for example, that after the original thought of “I am going to go to the shops after work”, that you wanted to think the next thought “I want to buy some new shoes”? How did you know that without being aware of the thought first?

So please, describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought? How do you think?

Also, did you LOOK to see if you could find that you who was able to direct successive thoughts?

When you did the ‘finding the gap’ exercise, did you find a thinker of thought? When you did the simplified looking exercise, did you find an “I” anywhere? If not, then revisit what you wrote to see if it makes any logical sense even.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
I can tell myself to think positively, and often times do, but that doesn't mean the next original thought will be positive, so no I cannot do so.
Exactly. If you could would you ever choose to have another unpleasant thought again?
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
Even when thoughts appear to have a logical sequence, such as when I mention above that I think a series of thoughts about planning activities for the day, specifically about local hikes, each thought is random in itself because an infinite number of thoughts about the same subject (hikes) could arise and I have no control over the one that does.
Yes, if thoughts were expressed via the tweeting of birds or an unknown language, how would you know what they meant? What meaning is given to thoughts are only just thoughts about thoughts.

The following link is a 7 minute clip of a soccer game. If you prefer another sport…please feel free to find one to do this exercise with.

This exercise is to help you see that narrator of the game is no different to the narrator labelled as ‘my thoughts’, and that the game played is no different to life unfolding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in and notice what the actual experience is.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.

Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (aka thought) offers lots of know-how and advice about what the players should or shouldn’t be doing and how they should be playing the game - as if thought can somehow influence what is going on - as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary seems to heighten feelings, and calls for loyalty with one team or another, and expounds the importance of this choice, and further expounds the importance of the game and its outcome.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary. Just watch the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Just notice what is happening as actual experience.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know the commentator is talking about, (and ignore all of your own thoughts as well), and just notice the actual experience of sound.

Let me know how you felt when the sound was turned on. Did you get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd, and/or the excitement of the commentator and his commentary of the game?
How did you feel when the sound was off and there was no commentary at all.

Is the commentary on the football game a necessity for the play to happen?

And in the same way: is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?



Love, Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:51 pm

Let me know how you felt when the sound was turned on. Did you get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd, and/or the excitement of the commentator and his commentary of the game?
I tried this with your video and with a personal favorite (N.E. Patriots vs KC Chiefs AFC championship highlights) in which the announcers are much more hyped and full of analysis. With the sound turned on, I got much more excited due to the roar of the crowd and the rapid, excited reporting of the analysts.
How did you feel when the sound was off and there was no commentary at all.
I was barely excited at all, especially in the soccer video because I do not know the teams and players and no history with them. Even with the Patriots video (I'm a fan), without the commentary, which explains the importance of each play, e.g., 3rd down and 2 yards a must play to continue the drive, etc., I experienced very little excitement, joy, despair, etc.
Is the commentary on the football game a necessity for the play to happen?
Definitely not.
And in the same way: is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?
Definitely not.

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:54 am

Hello Greg,

You did not answer all questions from my post. When you have answered them all I will respond. I give questions for a purpose and would therefore appreciate them all being answered.
What is the AE of everything you wrote above? Is it the AE of colour, smell, taste, sound, sensation? Or is it AE of thought?
I think it is the AE of thought.
I would like for you to LOOK then and tell me, and not what you think, but tell me what is all you wrote is actually pointing to. Can you find any of it in AE, other than AE of thought?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
I did nothing to make the original thought appear but it still seems like I can direct successive thoughts about the same subject, i.e., plans for the day. The original thought of researching local hikes just appears but I then I can think of several more succeeding thoughts of desired locations, views, length of hike, difficulty of hike. But once the last of these fades, the next thought appears without any direction.
And how do you do that exactly? How is it known, without thought, that you thought those successive thoughts? How did you know what particular thoughts to think next, after the original thought? How did you know, for example, that after the original thought of “I am going to go to the shops after work”, that you wanted to think the next thought “I want to buy some new shoes”? How did you know that without being aware of the thought first?

So please, describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought? How do you think?

Also, did you LOOK to see if you could find that you who was able to direct successive thoughts?


When you did the ‘finding the gap’ exercise, did you find a thinker of thought? When you did the simplified looking exercise, did you find an “I” anywhere? If not, then revisit what you wrote to see if it makes any logical sense even.

Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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