Please point me to the truth

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MariaNi
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MariaNi » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:33 pm

Thank you Michael.
I will do the exercises these next couple of days and let you know.

Many thanks,
Maria

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MichaelD
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MichaelD » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:06 pm

Great, and maybe read a thread or two in 'Gateless Gatecrashers' - free to download somewhere on LU homepage.

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MariaNi
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MariaNi » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:43 am

Hey Michael!

Not sure what the gateless gatecrushers is. I can’t find it. Is it on the homepage?
I did the exercise you suggested.
When it comes to sound, there’s no boundary between me and the sound. When it comes to sight, there’s no boundary between me and the mobile but its form is like it demarcates a boundary. But the mobile just appears out of nowhere like all the other objects around.

Thank you Michael!
Maria

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MichaelD
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MichaelD » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:12 pm

Hi Maria,

Gateless Gatecrashers is under to books section on the homepage. There is other good stuff under the resources section.
When it comes to sound, there’s no boundary between me and the sound.
So there is no boundary - Where or what is the me you are assuming is there?
When it comes to sight, there’s no boundary between me and the mobile but its form is like it demarcates a boundary. But the mobile just appears out of nowhere like all the other objects around.
Yes, so appearances are occuring - but where? to a self?

There is perception but canaperciever be found? was there an 'act of perception' carried out by a separate self?

Michael.

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MariaNi
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MariaNi » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:07 am

Hi Michael,

I would like to start by saying a big THANK YOU for bearing with me all these months. I was on the plane yesterday to Houston, and, I looked at my ipad, and although I was planning to read something else, the Gateless Gatecrushers book appeared out of nowhere (I had downloaded it when we first started, but had forgotten). I thought this was a sign so I started reading it and answering the questions for about 2 hours. I then arrived at the hotel and for the rest of the day, I was mainly in my room and kept reading the book and inquired about the self. Today I did the same for a couple of hours while I was at a coffee shop.
It's clear to me now Michael. It's crystal clear that there's no self. There's absolutely nothing. No manager, no person controlling anything, no seer, no experiencer, no one there. Nada. Niente. Nothing. No one. Zero. The 'I' is just another thought. It doesn't exist. It's all imagination.
Before starting the inquiry, part of 'me' was thinking that 'I' would like to be 'awakened' or 'enlightened' because this way people will respect me more perhaps, or that 'I' will then be special. What a joke Michael! There's no one there.. There's no one to be enlightened, and no one to be special. All this time, emptiness, life lives, does everything and Maria was a fictional character being frustrated when life didn't go her way or happy when it did. We say that animals are not as clever as we are, but assuming that animals don't have imaginary selves, I think we are dumb as a species.

I'm not sure where to go from here Michael. I feel a shift happened. There were no angels, no drums, no music, no change in my reality, everything is the same as it used to be but at the same time, I feel relaxed. Back when we started, I was really opposed to the idea, but I think slowly, as we kept working together, things started to shift and now there's knowing. I also feel like I want to tell everyone, even scream it from the rooftops, but maybe that's not a good idea..
I saw a dream last night, I was with a friend and she wanted to know what I was up to, so I told her, 'There's no self Sarah'. And she nodded at me and wanted to learn more. And then in the dream I remembered an old book in sociology that apparently this was old news and we were taught this at school already. Hehe I wish! But anyway, I thought I'd share this with you too.

I hope I don't regress back but who knows, it's not up to me, since I don't exist anyway.

Thank you very much again Michael!!!
Maria
Maria

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MichaelD
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MichaelD » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:28 pm

Hi Maria,

Lovely post! Great!!
It's clear to me now Michael. It's crystal clear that there's no self. There's absolutely nothing. No manager, no person controlling anything, no seer, no experiencer, no one there. Nada. Niente. Nothing. No one. Zero. The 'I' is just another thought. It doesn't exist. It's all imagination.
There's no one to be enlightened, and no one to be special. All this time, emptiness, life lives, does everything and Maria was a fictional character being frustrated when life didn't go her way or happy when it did.
I feel a shift happened. There were no angels, no drums, no music, no change in my reality, everything is the same as it used to be but at the same time, I feel relaxed. Back when we started, I was really opposed to the idea, but I think slowly, as we kept working together, things started to shift and now there's knowing. I also feel like I want to tell everyone, even scream it from the rooftops, but maybe that's not a good idea.
Fantastic. Does seem like a shift has occurred. Don't do anything in partucular just relax into the new perspective and enjoy the simplicity / relief. If you have properly seen through the illusion there isn't regression although 'selfing' as a process will still occur but you will see it for what it is.



LU has a set of questions that help to give a summing up of what you have seen and might help clear up any remaining confusion.

Would you have a go at answering them?

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

If you answer please take your time and answer as fully as possible, that really helps. You can answer them any way that suits you, one at a time, in pairs, or all at once, whatever is best for you.

Enjoy the process, :-)

Michael.

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MariaNi
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MariaNi » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:35 pm

Hi Michael,

Thank you!
Don't do anything in particular just relax into the new perspective and enjoy the simplicity / relief. If you have properly seen through the illusion there isn't regression although 'selfing' as a process will still occur but you will see it for what it is.
Ok, will do :)
Would you have a go at answering them?
Yes, of course, I'll answer.
Please see below:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No. There is no separate entity, and there has never been.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now
I think this illusion probably started when language started to develop and humans started labeling things, so they started labeling themselves too, and at some point during evolution, they identified with the label. So, when we grow up, as babies when we enter the world of symbols, other humans in our environment reinforce this identification. In fact, everywhere you look, this identification is present. The TV embraces fictional characters, showing people as caricatures, and all these messages of 'personal development', ' ownership', 'self improvement' etc that keeps this illusion alive. I remember when in Greece, the teacher would tell us quoting Socrates 'Know thyself'. And I remember I really wanted to know that 'person' who was inhabiting this body. But I was lost in the search and that was because there was no 'thyself' to begin with.
It's sad, but I always wanted to be 'somebody', but this 'I' who wanted this was just a thought that wanted to be another thought.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
The dialogue started almost three months ago so looking at the difference between three months ago and now, it's huge. I think some kind of shift was happening from the very beginning. There's a sense of relief, relaxation, calmness, understanding and a feeling that I landed into a new world.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I think I was starting to get tired and felt like I was not doing as much as I could do. So, the past three days the circumstances were right and decided to be serious about it and looked as intensely as I could.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
It's funny to see this now. So, basically decisions happen on their own. Decisions are already there, decided but the labeling of 'Should I do this or that' accompanies them almost at the same time and gives the impression that 'someone' made the decision. But this isn't true. Looking back in my life, many decisions 'I' thought 'I' made, were not 'mine'. They were just made and then there was a story accompanying them explaining why this or that, which of course is utterly unnecessary and does not reflect reality. Same for free will, choice and control. There's no control, because there's no one there to control anything.
Re responsibility, I never thought I'd say that, but I'm not responsible for anything, simply because 'I' don't exist. There's life doing its thing.
6) Anything to add?
I wanted to say thank you to Michael for his guidance and patience and to everyone in liberation unleashed who are helping people see through this illusion. I'm planning to refer a couple of people here. I think they'll benefit!

Michael, thank you so much!
Maria

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MichaelD
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MichaelD » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:09 pm

Hi Maria,

That was super fast! Great answers - simple and clear. I am happy with them so now there is a confirmation process involving other guides.

There was discussion amongst guides about this recently but I was too busy to follow it, so I am currently checking the process. Will get back to you soon with what we have to do next.

The basic idea is that other guides check our conversation, if anyone has any further questions I will put them to you. When you are confirmed as having seen no-self you are then invited to several closed facebook groups for folk that have newly awakened so the new perspective can be explored further. Is this Ok with you? It is usually quite a simple process and the benefit is that you may get a couple of questions that help clarify / deepen your experience.

Thanks for your gratitude....you always seemed likely to succeed as you looked and explored in an honest and direct way and didn't get lost in intelectualisation.

So, shall I put you through for confirmation?

Michael

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MariaNi
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MariaNi » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:52 am

Hi Michael,

Yes, I was at a conference last week, that didn't interest me very much, not as much as inquiring so had more free time than usual :)
When you are confirmed as having seen no-self you are then invited to several closed facebook groups for folk that have newly awakened so the new perspective can be explored further. Is this Ok with you? It is usually quite a simple process and the benefit is that you may get a couple of questions that help clarify / deepen your experience.
Thank you Michael. I recently got facebook using my dog's name, so I could have a look at these groups too. I also realized that for the past couple of years that I started being interested in finding out what's going on, I've been regurgitating teachings of others, trying to find meaning in other people's stories, instead of looking directly at my experience. So I'm very glad I found LU!
So, shall I put you through for confirmation?
Sure!


Thank you again!
Maria

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MichaelD
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MichaelD » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:54 am

Hi Maria,

Great.

The system hasn't changed. Our conversation will be checked by a very experienced guide from which questions may or may not emerge. Please check here for posts like you have been doing. This may take a few days.

Hope you are enjoying freedom :-)

Michael

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MariaNi
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MariaNi » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:29 am

Hi Michael,

This is fascinating! I look forward to any questions that may arise!
So far so good! Feels like a weight has been lifted.

Thank you!
Maria

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MichaelD
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MichaelD » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:26 pm

Hi Maria,

Hey. Fantastic. It is much lighter. Effortless being is how it is sometimes described.

Mummon (Zen master) who put a whole collection of koans together and called it the Gateless Gate said this:

The Gateless Gate

"The great path has no gates.
Thousands of roads enter it.
When one passes through
this gateless gate
She walks freely between
heaven and earth"

I am really pleased to tell you that you have been confirmed with no further questions! Clear as a bell so well done!! You were very easy to guide too. No over intelectualisation and when given excercises you got on and did them. Thanks!

What happens now is that you should be sent a letter (it is lovely as well as useful) and you will be invited to join Aftercare and Unleashed, which are forums on LU. There is a huge non duality world out there, and although seeking has dropped for you, it can be fun and helpful to explore. Also if, and whenever, you feel like it you can guide too if it feels right for you.

Watch this thread and your email. May take a few days depending on how busy admin folk are.

On a personal level if you ever want help or simply want to say hello my details are:

Facebook: Kevin Michael Donovan

Email: Kevinmichaeldonovan@gmail.com

Do not feel oblidged thouhg- do whatever feels right!

I am off to Wales for a few days and am unsure if I can access this forum from my phone (have lost the password!) so will try and check in with you on Saturday or Sunday if I have been unable to before then.

Have fun,

All the best :-) Michael.

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MariaNi
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Re: Please point me to the truth

Postby MariaNi » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:13 am

Hi Michael,

Thank you so much for the poem! Also, glad I was confirmed. Narina contacted me and gave me access to the facebook groups and the forum. I guess although the seeking drops, there are still feelings and thoughts that come up, that need dropping too, but it's so much easier now not to believe in them than it used to be.
For now, I feel that I'd like this new understanding to sink in, and then maybe I will get back to the forum and read some other books. I have Illona's book, Liberation Unleashed that I'm slowly reading.
I mentioned before that I'm in a new relationship, and another new thing I'm experiencing now is being in a relationship without clinging onto the other person, or feeling needy or as if the world will collapse if they go away. It feels good, no drama, no problem, no 'I' to accommodate.
Thank you for sharing your details. Although I'm in the facebook groups, I don't really use Facebook. My account has my dog's name and only got it recently because I joined a choir and it kind of was mandatory.
I will keep a note of your e-mail though. Thank you again for your help.
I hope you have a great time in Wales! I used to live in Cardiff for over 5 years and still have friends there. Wales is a very pretty country, especially when it's not raining!

Thanks again Michael!
Maria


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