Will it work for me...?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:19 am

hahaha.... I was actually scratching my ear without thinking about it.
my body decide to eat, it's automatic, then thoughts stop me as "I don't have time" or " want to eat something else"
for turning right or left, it depends if I know my way. usually it is automatic as well. when thoughts occur, then I get lost
how to stop thoughts?
when I act without thinking, by "feeling" it's just right. following my instinct, acting without thinking, is the action that leads to rightness.
how to look when thoughts occur? how to turn this into a normal stance. how to be "not me"?
when I look, then I analyze, then I do not look no more, nor see.

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:31 am

my body decide to eat, it's automatic, then thoughts stop me as "I don't have time" or " want to eat something else"
Please analyze more precisely: "my body decides to eat"= bodily sensations of hunger arise. >>>Thought appears": No time for eating". >>>Thought appears: "eat something else".

Where in the chain of feelings/thoughtsis there a "me", and what exactly do you mean by it? I am talking about the me in "MY" body, the me in "thoughts stop ME"...
how to look when thoughts occur? how to turn this into a normal stance. how to be "not me"?
Don't make mistake of trying to change what is. For the time being, during this investigation, just look at how feelings, thoughts and labels show up. Please don't try to be "not me". The "me" you are talking about, doesn't exist anyway.

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:24 am

my body decide to eat, it's automatic, then thoughts stop me as "I don't have time" or " want to eat something else"
Please analyze more precisely: "my body decides to eat"= bodily sensations of hunger arise. >>>Thought appears": No time for eating". >>>Thought appears: "eat something else".
Where in the chain of feelings/thoughtsis there a "me", and what exactly do you mean by it? I am talking about the me in "MY" body, the me in "thoughts stop ME"...
the Me I refer is what I believe makes Marc as a live entity.
now looking at it this way, there is no real me as thoughts just occur, pulling and pushing in different directions. I just identify what thoughts occur as to be mine, driven by subconscious goals, and act accordingly or not.

Don't make mistake of trying to change what is. For the time being, during this investigation, just look at how feelings, thoughts and labels show up. Please don't try to be "not me". The "me" you are talking about, doesn't exist anyway.
If me doesn't exist, then I could say that I am a vessel in different winds, heading toward nothing but illusions.
I have difficulty to refer to that statement. if there is no me, then what?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:26 am

sorry I didn't manage the quote system quite well. part of my question/ answer is drown in the yellow mass...

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:36 am

Marc, an instruction about how to use the quote function is here:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660
if you hit "preview" before you send, you can see if your message is formatted in the way you wanted.

--------------
now looking at it this way, there is no real me as thoughts just occur, pulling and pushing in different directions. I just identify what thoughts occur as to be mine, driven by subconscious goals, and act accordingly or not.
YES. You are on the right track.

If me doesn't exist, then I could say that I am a vessel in different winds, heading toward nothing but illusions.
What if there is no vessel?
Just the winds?
I have difficulty to refer to that statement. if there is no me, then what?
Everything else. Sights, sounds, thoughts, feelings.

Can you find anything else that is not just another thought?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:34 am

Can you find anything else that is not just another thought?

Taste of things, creation like during drawing, or cooking ( am a chef), painting...all is done thoughtlessly. like absorbed into a no - world. or inner space (outer?)

to put words into answers to your questions, I am drawn into thoughts, then wondering what to answer, if it will be right or wrong. I think I try too much to be what is supposed to be not me here on this site. it plays with the mind and some concepts I have hard times to understand, or grasp.
there are always parasite thoughts in this body's head. it's so difficult to connect to a moment of peace to try find rest and listen or look at life.

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:17 am

there are always parasite thoughts in this body's head. it's so difficult to connect to a moment of peace to try find rest and listen or look at life.
Don't try to get rid of these thoughts!!! Look at them instead. Investigate:
Where do they come from?
Can you know what your next thought is going to be?
Can there be more than one thought at a time?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:35 pm

I'd say they come from emotions?!
I am angry right now, and I relish in this anger, I think about what makes me angry and pose as a victim of life.
they are coming from a feeling of loss, they keep telling wrong things about who I am.
I don't know what my next thought will be, and yes I have several thoughts jumping on one another

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Where do thoughts come from?
I'd say they come from emotions?!
I am angry right now, and I relish in this anger, I think about what makes me angry and pose as a victim of life.
they are coming from a feeling of loss, they keep telling wrong things about who I am.
I don't know what my next thought will be, and yes I have several thoughts jumping on one another
Interesting find! Look at this chain of feelings and thoughts:

Anger arises >>> Thoughts about anger arise>>>thoughts about victimhood arise>>>feeling of loss arises>>>thoughts about what people talk about arise>>>

There is no entity "self" behind these thoughts. These thoughts are all there is to a self. They circle around nothing. Actually, they are the self. Or, better said, they are self-ing.

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:54 pm

"There is no entity "self" behind these thoughts. These thoughts are all there is to a self. They circle around nothing. Actually, they are the self. Or, better said, they are self-ing"
you say: there is no entity behind, but then you say they are actually the self.

hence the self is no entity but created thoughts, no reality other than what we want to believe.
if I suppress the thoughts, then I suppress the self, their very existence is what makes the ego? no thoughts to hear or se, no ego, then just flow with the winds?

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:19 am

hence the self is no entity but created thoughts, no reality other than what we want to believe.
if I suppress the thoughts, then I suppress the self, their very existence is what makes the ego? no thoughts to hear or se, no ego, then just flow with the winds?
Who creates the thoughts?

Please create the thought of a pink elephant now.
and now a thought completely unrelated to the pink elephant. Can you come up with a thought that not caused by anything? Or is it possible to trace all thoughts back to impulses from outside or from the past?

Can thoughts be suppressed?

And then suppress the thought of a pink elephant. Now.
their very existence is what makes the ego? no thoughts to hear or see, no ego, then just flow with the winds?
Yes, their very existence is the ego, and it changes "with the wind", i.e. within the framework of genes and conditioning and past experiences, thoughts come and go, and some are believed in. There is no you to control what is appearing in awareness.

But obviously "your" conditioning and existing ideas allow for new ideas to come in and question the old ideas. (this is not the case for every set of thoughts!)
That means, "you" are open to question the old idea of a self-entity.

Can you see that self is just a thought?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:22 am

Can thoughts be suppressed?
no, merely repressed. it keeps coming, unruly and unexpected.
Can you come up with a thought that not caused by anything? Or is it possible to trace all thoughts back to impulses from outside or from the past?
yes, it looks like all can be traced back to something known, that touch(ed) us emotionally or physically. past or present, it draws us thoughts of future, it creates our tomorrow by reaction.
There is no you to control what is appearing in awareness.
is it then a control that thoughts generate?
That means, "you" are open to question the old idea of a self-entity.

Can you see that self is just a thought?
I am opened to question it, but I have difficulties to relate to it in my life, right now.
i could say that all your "statements" are thought provoking, though,

to recap, there cannot be thoughts of things that we don't know, or doesn't/ didn't touch us at a time in our life, from birth to nowadays. all are inside since the first interaction with parents or others. and some are genetic, hereditary...

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:20 pm

to recap, there cannot be thoughts of things that we don't know, or doesn't/ didn't touch us at a time in our life, from birth to nowadays. all are inside since the first interaction with parents or others. and some are genetic, hereditary...
Yes.
I am opened to question it, but I have difficulties to relate to it in my life, right now.
How do you experience self in your life right now?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:53 pm

How do you experience self in your life right now?
to be frank and honest, as a duality.
I'll try to explain the best I can.
I feel a separation between 2 Marc since a while. Before I come here, but more since.
I feel self as a heavy thing pulling me into thoughts, that I started to look at more and more, (which brings me more peace, when I am alone essentially), and another part that is refusing this self-ing, or at least reacting when the self acts. the self is questioning me a lot, with fears, like what then, will I be richer, poorer, will I lose things I think I own, but really will I care then? will it be so important to Me then, if I manage to crash the no gate?!...
the self is panicking in some ways, and it relates to me as something I called the dark side ( I did Hoffman process 2 years ago...)
I manage to LOOK when thoughts arise, mostly thoughts about this work, or my troubles in life.
it's shaky, but here it comes. I feel stronger, or so do I hope. it is not easy to put it into words, but loads of feelings, pondering, emotions (typing this word brings me tears)
I feel like trapped into a cageless prison, bouncing on invisible walls.
those fears from self ground me to this ego, bringing material questions to thinking, but it is not real fears, as I manage to take confidence by just looking at them as passers by, trying to get a grip on Me.
I sent you a request to chat in PM, to ask mostly things about what then, and so on. maybe it is not good to ask...just look? :-)

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:17 pm

I feel a separation between 2 Marc since a while. Before I come here, but more since.

I feel self as a heavy thing pulling me into thoughts, that I started to look at more and more, (which brings me more peace, when I am alone essentially),

and another part that is refusing this self-ing, or at least reacting when the self acts. the self is questioning me a lot, with fears, like what then, will I be richer, poorer, will I lose things I think I own, but really will I care then? will it be so important to Me then, if I manage to crash the no gate?!...
If you look closely: Are these two Marcs really two sides of a self? Or just two thoughts (with sub-thoughts) that trigger two different feeling states? Is there somebody who is refusing "self-ing" in your experience, or is there only the thought: "I shouldn't think these self-ing thoughts?"

Is there something behind these thoughts and feelings? Or are these thoughts and feelings arising in this aware space that is always present?


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