Unquestionable new perception, freedom

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Mon May 06, 2019 1:24 pm

How it works?
Habits, memories, thinking about the future, not directly experience the now.

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JonathanR
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby JonathanR » Mon May 06, 2019 10:58 pm

Hi Osnofa
. It is the control made by the separate me or l.
But you have already said that this 'self' does not really 'exist'. Is it clear that 'self' is just an idea about ' a me'?

How does an idea 'control' anything?

Let us look at 'control'.

Place your hands on a table palms down in front of you. Soon you must raise one hand into the air but the other one stays on the table. Look for the moment, the point at which the 'choice' is made between hands. Look for the choice-point. Is there one?.

Also 'decisions'.. Go and make a warm drink. When you return ask the following questions: was there a decision to stand up or to walk to the kitchen? Or did walking just happen?

All best


Jon.

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:26 am

I'm seeing that. It is an idea of control that controls nothing.
There is no choice point. And if there is one is so so so irrelevant.
Making a warm drink is an adventure that can happen in million different ways. Stand up, walking, all happens by itself.
Thank you Jon

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JonathanR
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby JonathanR » Tue May 07, 2019 1:36 pm

Hi Osnofa
. I'm seeing that. It is an idea of control that controls nothing.
There is no choice point. And if there is one is so so so irrelevant.
Making a warm drink is an adventure that can happen in million different ways. Stand up, walking, all happens by itself.
Good.
. How it works?
Habits, memories, thinking about the future, not directly experience the now.
That's interesting. So, thinking ABOUT future, past, habits and all sorts of other ideas, are NOT direct experience?

Would you say that direct experience is whatever is experienced happening right here and now?

So thoughts appear.. But whatever they are about is not actually appearing?

Is self like this? Appearing as thoughts but always an illusion?

You spoke of some anxiety? Do you feel any fear or anxiety about this investigation into 'self'?

Jon

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:56 pm

Hello Jon,
No, they don't. Thinking is not looking.
DE is exactly what you said.
No, they don't. Thoughts are not ours. Like self.
I feel some fear and anxiety not from this investigation but very frequently.
Thank you Jon.

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Tue May 07, 2019 6:16 pm

This investigation is magnificent.
Thank you Jon

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JonathanR
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby JonathanR » Tue May 07, 2019 6:33 pm

Osnofa
. Thinking is not looking.
DE is exactly what you said.
Good. It's very helpful and important to agree about this at the start.
. Thoughts are not ours. Like self
Right. How does it feel to see this?
. I feel some fear and anxiety not from this investigation but very frequently.
It's good that this investigation is not provoking anxiety. I asked because sometimes this happens for some people and it is possible for us to work with it in that case.

I wonder if fear and anxiety are like thoughts? Appearing sometimes for sure but not actually created by or experienced by a fixed entity?

How do things happen? Do you make anything happen?
. This investigation is magnificent.
Thank you Jon
You are very welcome Osnofa

Jon

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Tue May 07, 2019 9:32 pm

How does it feel to see this.
Strange. I want to get rid from this phony, this lie.
Fear and anxiety are thoughts. I know this intellectualy by l can't see through them and resolve. I can stay with them but they don't go away.
Things just happen. I can see it more and more clearly.

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Tue May 07, 2019 9:38 pm

The absence of self is seen in quietness but seems to be lost in daily life.
Hug,
Thank you Jon

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 pm

Jon, just a serious question:
Is smoking tabaco an impediment in this investigation?

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JonathanR
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby JonathanR » Wed May 08, 2019 9:09 am

Hi Osnofa,

I wouldn't worry too much about tobacco as a potential impediment in relation to this inquiry. Of course its said to be bad for health.
. I want to get rid from this phony, this lie.
But how are thoughts to be prevented from appearing if they are not 'yours'?

Is it about getting rid of something?

Who or what is supposed to 'get rid'? Who or what 'remains' after the getting rid?
. The absence of self is seen in quietness but seems to be lost in daily life.
Is it ever something possessed or experienced by an experiencer, even in quietness?

Is it a thing that can be 'lost'?

A hug,

Jon

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Wed May 08, 2019 4:12 pm

Hi Jon,
Thoughts can't be prevented. Just come and go.
I can't get rid of something that not exist. What was supposed to get rid was the me, the l.
What remains is nothing, emptyness.
It can't be lost because doesn't exist in first place.

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Wed May 08, 2019 4:14 pm

No. There is no ownership of anything.

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JonathanR
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby JonathanR » Thu May 09, 2019 7:09 am

Hi Osnofa

How about Intention, Free Will, Choice and Decisions?

Conventionally it's assumed that these things are going on all the time, that 'I decide'., 'I choose between alternatives'. For example, 'I choose which shirt to wear in the morning'. And in reality one shirt or another does end up being worn.

Is a chooser choosing?

Jon

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Osnofa111111
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Re: Unquestionable new perception, freedom

Postby Osnofa111111 » Thu May 09, 2019 7:48 am

Hi Jon,
It seems to exist a chooser but it's not true that sometimes this chooser gets very confusing and hesitant?
No there is no chooser, decisions...
It all runs automatically.
Thank you Jon.


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