Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

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forgetmenot
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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:56 am

Hey Beanstalk,
Wonderful! So when you did that....how did it make you feel?
Free and content. Stories can appear as they do but they are not real and cannot hurt me. I can just watch them as they appear and see them for what they are - thoughts
YES! So can you give a big fat YES to have seen through the idea of there being a separate self?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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thursday123
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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby thursday123 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:36 am

YES! So can you give a big fat YES to have seen through the idea of there being a separate self?
YES

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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:40 am

Hey Beanstalk,
YES! So can you give a big fat YES to have seen through the idea of there being a separate self?
YES
YAY! I am going to post the final questions. If you have any questions or would like further clarity around anything, just ignore the final questions and ask me what you need to ask. I would much prefer that than for you to go away still feeling like you haven't actually had the realisation. If you feel you are clear, then could you please answer the final questions.

Can you answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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forgetmenot
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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:26 am

Hello Beanstalk,

Several days have passed since my last post. What is happening for you? Do you have any questions? I would like you to answer the last questions as you will then be able to use the Further Investigation (FI) forum when you want to look deeper or you have doubts that appear. All you need to do is start a thread there and a guide will pick it up. This way you will have several avenues of support ie the FB groups and the FI forum.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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thursday123
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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby thursday123 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:58 am

Kay,

Several days have passed since my last post. What is happening for you? Do you have any questions? I would like you to answer the last questions as you will then be able to use the Further Investigation (FI) forum when you want to look deeper or you have doubts that appear. All you need to do is start a thread there and a guide will pick it up. This way you will have several avenues of support ie the FB groups and the FI forum.
I'm extremely sorry for leaving it so long, I have spent the last few days without wifi which I wasn't expecting. I've been having great success just looking at thoughts and sensations as they appear, and seeing them for what they are. I have been looking at thoughts as AE rather than things which tell the truth about reality. And sensations I see as AE of sensation, although a lot of the time I can't even find a definite sensation when I look at 'emotions'. In relation to realising the non-existence of the separate self, I've thought long and hard and I'm still not sure whether I have had the realisation, but think it's likely that I have. There are still many doubting thoughts, but I can't imagine ever not having those thoughts, about this or anything else because that's just what thoughts do. I'm not sure what form the realisation would come in, because anything thought talks about is just another story and everything that actually is just is, so I don't know how it can be known that one has had the realisation. But if I ask thought 'is there a separate self?', the answer is 'no, almost certainly not', so I'm going to answer the final questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No such entity can be found. There are only thoughts that seem to point to an 'I'. These thoughts can easily be mistaken for a separate self, but they are not because they're just what is. The separate self has never existed in the past because there is no past for it to have existed in, there is only the now, but in the context of the past there has never been a separate self either; if such an entity doesn't exist now it cannot have existed previously.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of the separate self, when looked into, is found to be only thoughts about a separate self, which are accompanied by the belief in those thoughts, which itself is just more thought. It starts as soon as belief in the thoughts about a separate self occurs. What really exists, is soundsmellcolourtastesensationthought, but there is no 'I' to 'be' any of those things, because they are just exactly what they are. No separate entity is required for experience to exist.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
In relation to the non-existence of the separate self, it doesn't feel any different. I still feel like me, I still go about my day 'making decisions' and thoughts still appear about 'I'. I don't feel as though I'm seeing anything differently because there's nothing to see except what was always there anyway. Everything that appears to point to the 'I' is still there, and even if thought says 'there is no separate self' that's just another thought. I'm not sure what could be different after realising I don't exist, unless it was by some byproduct. However what has made a difference to how I feel is learning to watch thoughts and sensations appear as they do without investing greatly in them or trying to eradicate them. It's pretty much a bulletproof approach to anything because I'm not really doing anything, not trying to change anything but just placing attention onto experience. But the benefit of it has been that, when negative emotions appear, the suffering that usually comes with them is greatly reduced, and I even feel peaceful and content at the same time these emotions are present. The thoughts cannot hurt me, and the sensations are nothing to be afraid of.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
There's nothing to be pushed over and nothing to see, I think that in itself is the realisation. I don't think there was a last bit that can be pinpointed, but rather a gradual, subtle deepening of the understanding of no-self, though this understanding is itself conceptual because in truth there's absolutely nothing to understand.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
Nothing can be found that makes things happen. The way the illusion works, is that thoughts appear about a 'me' that is making decisions and choices, and controlling thoughts and behaviour. When actions are taken, there is thought about a 'me' that is taking action, but really there is only experience, including AE of the thought itself. The thoughts about a 'me' are not simply 'I am doing this' or 'I am making this decision', they are generally much more complex than that, and difficult to describe here, but they create a powerful 'sense of a self'. However, when this sense of self is seen as just another thought, there is nothing left to see, and it is clear that no decision-maker or controller can be found. For example when I chose from a menu which meal to have, that 'choice' occurred as a thought, but the thought cannot come from anyone/anywhere, because there's no-one and nowhere for it to come from. There is no-one there to provoke the thought. Even the thought 'I chose that dish' comes from nowhere. Another example would be the preferences that pop up when choosing a place to stay, such as 'I would like to stay somewhere quiet and cheap'. These preferences are just thoughts and feelings that arise from nowhere, there is no me choosing them.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
I am not responsible for anything because there is no 'me'. There are thoughts about responsibility, for example those around guilt from past actions, but in truth there is just thought and sensation occurring, the guilt that it talks about cannot be found, and the past that events are supposed to have taken place in is non-existent. For example, a thought about a past action arose yesterday and was accompanied by a sensation labelled by thought as 'guilt'. But all that can be verified is that thought and sensation are occurring; all the many, many stories that thought creates cannot be verification of anything other than of existence itself. I can't know the events that thought depicts ever took place, or that there was a me that had a choice in any action that was taken.

6) Anything to add?
Thank you for all your help and guidance over the last couple of months Kay, it is very much appreciated!


Beanstalk

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forgetmenot
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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:50 am

Hello Beanstalk,
In relation to the non-existence of the separate self, it doesn't feel any different. I still feel like me, I still go about my day 'making decisions' and thoughts still appear about 'I'. I don't feel as though I'm seeing anything differently because there's nothing to see except what was always there anyway. Everything that appears to point to the 'I' is still there, and even if thought says 'there is no separate self' that's just another thought. I'm not sure what could be different after realising I don't exist, unless it was by some byproduct.
It won’t feel different. How can it? There has never been a separate self, so How exactly, does not feeling like a person 'feel'? What it 'feels like' right now, is what it 'feels like' to not be a person. For it to feel different would mean that there was a ‘you’ and now there isn’t. If there really is no inherent self, how would the experience be different from what already is?

Realising ‘no self’ is not really a realisation per se that there is no such entity as 'no self' occurs, it is more so that there is noting an absence of a self. So it is not about "Oh look, there is the experience of no self"; more it is the case that any sense of self is seen to be not real, that on scrutiny there is no substance of self that underlies the object or thought. Everything is already functioning properly without a self. It was never more than an illusion in the first place. In this sense, nothing changes after awakening.
But the benefit of it has been that, when negative emotions appear, the suffering that usually comes with them is greatly reduced, and I even feel peaceful and content at the same time these emotions are present. The thoughts cannot hurt me, and the sensations are nothing to be afraid of.
Lovely! Paradoxically, seeing the absence of a separate self brings about the feeling of peace and contentment. It is ‘within’ this peace and contentment that every ‘thing’ arises…and what arises cannot affect what already is ie peace and contentment. There are stories about thoughts and emotions etc that can affect peace and contentment…but they are stories which are arising within peace and contentment which you are fully aware of.

Realising 'no self' happens, but there will also be periods of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all normal. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit...so yo-yoing happens. There is clear seeing that there is no self and in the next moment this clarity is muddied...all normal experiences. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through though; and like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

Are you happy for me to get the other guides to look at your thread and sign off on it?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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thursday123
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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby thursday123 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:05 am

Are you happy for me to get the other guides to look at your thread and sign off on it?
Yes, that would be fine.

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forgetmenot
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Re: Beanstalk and Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:53 pm

Hey Beanstalk,

There are no further questions for you. It has been a pleasure to further explore the concept of the separate self with you. Your username, on the forum, will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions etc, via the forums PM system, or via Facebook. If you wish to do further investigations you can do it via the Further Investigations (FI). You are already a member of the FB groups, so please feel free to ask questions, to share your doubts and confusion there as that is normal after gating.

Sending love,
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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