Die before you die

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Wed May 01, 2019 7:38 pm

“I can understand…” – when you use the word ‘understand’ do you mean that you can see this experientially or you just understand it intellectually?.
I can see this. Mental images are formed when attention is pulled to site of a sensation. The sensation itself actually tells me nothing other than there is awareness of a sensation.

.
The reason why we do these exercises is to see how much of our experience is distorted by thoughts and mental images. In reality, the sensations have no locations at all. But we believe they have, since thoughts and mental images show a location. So they create a conceptual overlay on the actual reality. And from there, we cannot see what is really actually happening, since we see everything through this conceptual overlay. Can you see this?

Yes I feel like this is becoming clearer.
.
What is the actual experience of ‘cold air’? Isn’t it just a sensation?
And only thoughts say and mental images show that these sensations are or made by the ‘cold air’?
Yes just sensation, and yes only thoughts say 'cold air'.
. e. Since in actual experience there are no two sensations, one for the ‘skin’ and another for the ‘cold’. There is only one sensation, and only thought compare this current sensation with a previous sensation with a conclusion that the current sensation is cooler, so it’s caused by the cold air. Can you see this?
Yes, I can see this.
. Compare the two sensations. Is there any difference between those two sensations?
If you completely ignore all thoughts and images, how is it known that one sensation is inside and the other is outside?
Can you even find a border between those sensations?
Can you find where the inside sensation stops and the outside sensations starts?
Can you even locate two distinct sensations?
Sorry I haven't had a long time to spend on the exercise and would like to spend some more time on it as I am not quite to seeing it yet, so I'm going out but I'll come back to it later this eveningor tomorrow and will let you know. Regards, Rachel

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Wed May 01, 2019 10:22 pm

Compare the two sensations. Is there any difference between those two sensations?
If you completely ignore all thoughts and images, how is it known that one sensation is inside and the other is outside?
Can you even find a border between those sensations?
Can you find where the inside sensation stops and the outside sensations starts?
Can you even locate two distinct sensations?.
So I've tried the exercise again. And sometimes it's like I get a flash and it seems so obvious. Butt attention goes to mind so quicklyy and thoughts about the experience pull me away from the actual experience. So I'll write what I can see now. But I think I'll need to repeat the excerise a few times before it sinks in.

How is it known one sensation is inside and one is outside? This as difficult with my hands as I couldn't actually feel the inside of my hands or a part of my hands that I'd class as I side. So my shoulders are a bit tense and achy so I tried to use them. It feels like one sensation,not an inside or outside. Attention moves around the sensation focusing on the muscle then focus moves to the skin where I can feel my clothing. I think it's the focal point switching between the sensations in conjunction with the mental images that helps to hold up the belief that there is an inside and outside. So the focal point falls on a sensation, mind says 'achy muscle's ' focal point moves mind says 'clothes touching skin' .

Looking again just at sensation, I would say yes there is difference in the feeling.
How do I know one is inside one is outside? I think it's my mind saying inside and outside, but as of yet ae hasn't made fully doubt this .
Can you find a border? No I cannot find a border where one sensation starts and one ends.

Can you find where inside stops and outside starts? No not in ae, it just feels like one sensation.

Can you locate two sensations? I think it's one but mind keeps dividing it into two. If I hold my arm out in front of me eventually the muscle starts to hurt. I have jumper on also, so this creates two distinct feelings one I believe comes from inside, which is hurting muscles and one comes from outside jumper on skin. But ae experience is sensations and a focal point flitting about the armm. Everytime the focal point moves the mind makes a quick statement or creates a picture of the arms position. The focal point can't focus on the whole arm it just focuses on bits then switches. It's the combination of the mental image and swapping of focus that keeps creating an inside and an outside. I'll try again tomorrow. Hope this post makes sense. I honestly do feel like for a brief second I get it and its just gone? I'm not sure. Thanks Rachel.

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Vivien
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Vivien » Thu May 02, 2019 4:23 am

Hi Rachel,
Attention moves around the sensation focusing on the muscle then focus moves to the skin where I can feel my clothing.
Locate an area of the body where it seems that clothing can be felt. Focus on the sensations only. Ignore all thoughts and images.

Put the attention to the sensation labelled ‘skin’ (where the clothing touching the skin). Localize it.
Now localize the sensation labelled ‘clothing’.

How many sensations are there?
Is there one sensation for the skin, and another one for the clothing?
If so, where does one sensation ends and the other starts?

Can ‘clothing’ be really felt in AE at all?
Is there an AE of ‘clothing’?
Can ‘skin’ be really felt at all? Is there an AE of ‘skin’?

If I hold my arm out in front of me eventually the muscle starts to hurt. I have jumper on also, so this creates two distinct feelings one I believe comes from inside, which is hurting muscles and one comes from outside jumper on skin.
How do you know that one sensation is coming from a muscle, and the other sensation is coming from the clothing?
What is the AE of muscle?


Pay attention to the sensation labelled ‘face’.
Investigate the border of the sensation. Thoughts and images ‘say’ that where the face ends, at the same spot or line the outside world starts. Try to find the edge, where the sensation labelled ‘face’ ends, and the sensation of the ‘world’ begins.

Is there a sensation for the outside world at all?
Is there a sensation for ‘air’?
Is there another sensation for ‘skin’?
How many sensations are there?


Now pay attention to the sensation labelled ‘face’, where it ends (where the ‘outside world’ begins).
Can you fine an ending line for the sensation labelled ‘face’?
Does the sensation labelled ‘face’ ends at all?


In order to say that there is inside and outside, both of them has to be found. You have to be able to find the edges of inside, and you also have to be able to find the edges of outside.
Can you find the edge of inside?
Can you find the edge of outside?
Can you find any sensation that is the ‘outside world’?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Thu May 02, 2019 1:05 pm

. How many sensations are there?
Is there one sensation for the skin, and another one for the clothing?
If so, where does one sensation ends and the other starts?
There is only one sensation.

.Can ‘clothing’ be really felt in AE at all?
Is there an AE of ‘clothing’?
Can ‘skin’ be really felt at all? Is there an AE of ‘skin’?
Yes clothing can be felt. But skin cannot. Where the clothing is in contact with the skin it is felt and the sensation can be soft or itchy whatever.
. How do you know that one sensation is coming from a muscle, and the other sensation is coming from the clothing?
What is the AE of muscle?
I don't know one sensation is coming from a muscle this is just something I have learnt/or been told. Same with clothing, I recognise this sensation from past experience.

The actual experience of a muscle generally I cant feel my muscles. But when they are tense or are tired I can feel them. The sensation is just a sensation but knowledge tells me my muscle aches so I need to rest. If I ignore knowledge Then I wouldn't know what the sensation is. There would just be sensation.
. Is there a sensation for the outside world at all?
Is there a sensation for ‘air’?
Is there another sensation for ‘skin’?
How many sensations are there?
There is only one sensation it is the sensation of air and skin, say cold air on skin feels different to hot sun on skin. But they are not two sensations just one.

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Thu May 02, 2019 9:03 pm

.
Now pay attention to the sensation labelled ‘face’, where it ends (where the ‘outside world’ begins).
Can you fine an ending line for the sensation labelled ‘face’?
Does the sensation labelled ‘face’ ends at all?
[H/quote]

So I've gone away and looked at these exercises for a bit this evening. No I cannot find where face ends and outside begins. There is no distinction.

Is there an ending line for face? I'm not sure. Where I feel a sensation on the skin this feels like the end line of face. So areas that feel are the end line.

Can you find the edge of inside?
Can you find the edge of outside?
Can you find any sensation that is the ‘outside world’?
I cannot find the edge of inside or the edge of outside. I cannot find an 'outside world' in ae of a sensation, it seems there is no distinct seperation. Sensation just is.

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Vivien
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Vivien » Thu May 02, 2019 11:49 pm

Hi Rachel,
Yes clothing can be felt. But skin cannot. Where the clothing is in contact with the skin it is felt and the sensation can be soft or itchy whatever.
If there is only one sensation, and the skin is not felt, then how is it known exactly that the clothing is in contact with the skin and is felt? – do you see that this is also coming from thought/images?

Let’s break down what is really happening.

‘Skin’ is a mental label over a sensation. So ‘skin’ as such cannot be felt, since only sensation can be felt.
So the sensation labelled ‘skin’ is not the AE of ‘skin’, but the AE of sensation.

‘Clothing’ is a mental label over a sensation. So ‘clothing’ as such cannot be felt, since only sensation can be felt.
So the sensation labelled ‘clothing’ is not the AE of ‘clothing’, but the AE of sensation.

So in AE, ‘clothing’ as such is never felt. In AE there is no such thing as ‘clothing’. ‘Clothing’ is a mental fabrication. Can you see this?

And as you’ve seen, there is only one sensation is present. And thought made the conclusion that the skin isn’t felt, but the clothing is felt. But actually, neither ‘clothing’ nor ‘skin’ is felt, since there is only sensation.

There is only one sensation, and thought sometimes label this sensation as ‘skin’, sometimes as ‘clothing’, and sometimes as ‘soft’ or ‘itchy’ with a further explanation that softness or itchiness is caused by clothing touching the skin. But ‘soft’ or ‘itchy’ is just still that SAME ONE SENSATION. Can you see this?
The actual experience of a muscle generally I cant feel my muscles. But when they are tense or are tired I can feel them.
You can never feel a ‘muscle’ as such, since ‘muscle’ is just a label over a sensation.
Only thought interpretation says that this sensation is ‘tensed’ or ‘tired’, but those are also just sensation.

What does a baby know about muscles before learning language and conceptualization? For the baby there are only sensations. For the baby there is no such thing as ‘tensed’ or ‘tired’, those are all learned concepts. So what is there for the baby, before any conceptualization, that is what is really going on.

But see it for yourself. If there is a sensation present now, what thoughts labels as ‘tired’ or ‘tensed’, then go to that experience, and investigate:

Does the sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘tired’ or ‘tensed’?
What would be true for a baby experience without concepts?

So, can the baby experience ‘clothing’, or does she only experience a sensation?
V: Is there an ending line for face?
R: I'm not sure. Where I feel a sensation on the skin this feels like the end line of face. So areas that feel are the end line.
In order to experience and ending line of the face, you also have to be experience the ‘outside world’. Without the experience of the ‘outside world’, there is no experience of the ending line of the face. Look at this carefully. Can you see this?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Fri May 03, 2019 9:59 pm

Hi
. If there is only one sensation, and the skin is not felt, then how is it known exactly that the clothing is in contact with the skin and is felt? – do you see that this is also coming from thought/images?


Yes this is mind interpretation.
. ‘Clothing’ is a mental label over a sensation. So ‘clothing’ as such cannot be felt, since only sensation can be felt.
So the sensation labelled ‘clothing’ is not the AE of ‘clothing’, but the AE of sensation.
Oh I think I get it, I experience the sensation I do not experience the clothing. I think I can see this. I don't actually experience any part of my body I experience the pure sensation of that body part then mind tells me what it is or what is happening. So right now my arms are resting on a cushion but I cannot feel the cushion I feel the sensation and my mind fills in the rest.
.
So in AE, ‘clothing’ as such is never felt. In AE there is no such thing as ‘clothing’. ‘Clothing’ is a mental fabrication. Can you see this?


I can see the first point yes,'clothing is a mental fabrication'. In ae physical experience it is not known. I'm not sure about there being no such thing as clothing?
. But ‘soft’ or ‘itchy’ is just still that SAME ONE SENSATION. Can you see this?
Yes one sensation. Which mind has interpreted as the feeling of clothing.
. Does the sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘tired’ or ‘tensed’?
What would be true for a baby experience without concepts?

So, can the baby experience ‘clothing’, or does she only experience a sensation?
No 'tired' or ' tense' is mind overlay.

A baby would just experience the physical feeling.

Babies would just experience pure sensation, without mental reference or knowledge
. In order to experience and ending line of the face, you also have to be experience the ‘outside world’. Without the experience of the ‘outside world’, there is no experience of the ending line of the face. Look at this carefully. Can you see this?
In actual experience I cannot feel a dividing linee between the sensation I believe I am feeling and the actual sensation. So I cannot feel where my face ends and cool air begins it is just one sensation I also see that I don't feel the cool air I feel the sensation. As I feel the sensation and mind says 'cold air on skin, and I form a mental image of the outside of my face. I believe my skin is the end line. In actual experience face is just a bunch of sensations labelled face, And I cannot feel my skin but I can't seem to throw out the idea that the sensation is the end line. It's that old inside outside thing, I can't see this.

Thanks Rachel

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Vivien
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Vivien » Fri May 03, 2019 11:34 pm

Hi Rachel,
So right now my arms are resting on a cushion but I cannot feel the cushion I feel the sensation and my mind fills in the rest.
Yes.
V: So in AE, ‘clothing’ as such is never felt. In AE there is no such thing as ‘clothing’. ‘Clothing’ is a mental fabrication. Can you see this?
R: I can see the first point yes,'clothing is a mental fabrication'. In ae physical experience it is not known. I'm not sure about there being no such thing as clothing?
I mean when eyes are closed, there is only the AE of sensation, clothing is just a mental fabrication. That is the AE of a thought, or an AE of an image, but not the AE of ‘clothing’.
In actual experience I cannot feel a dividing linee between the sensation I believe I am feeling and the actual sensation. So I cannot feel where my face ends and cool air begins it is just one sensation I also see that I don't feel the cool air I feel the sensation. As I feel the sensation and mind says 'cold air on skin, and I form a mental image of the outside of my face. I believe my skin is the end line. In actual experience face is just a bunch of sensations labelled face, And I cannot feel my skin but I can't seem to throw out the idea that the sensation is the end line. It's that old inside outside thing, I can't see this.
You don’t have to throw out the idea that the sensation is the end line. It’s enough to see that it’s just an idea, and it’s not the accurate description of the actual experience. This inside/outside appearance won’t go away, at least not now, maybe later after lots of further investigation. So that’s all right. We went deep into this, actually we did much deeper investigation then what I usually do with clients. This is enough to go further, and investigate emotions.

So let’s look at emotions, what they really like. Bring up an emotion, feel it, and let’s examine what is really going on.

An appearing ‘emotion’ like ‘fear’ or ‘happiness’ has three ‘components’:
(a) a pure bodily sensation, like contraction or relaxation
(b) a mental label stuck to (layered over) the sensation, like “this is fear” or “this is contraction in the stomach” or “unpleasant” or “I am happy”
(c) and simultaneously appearing mental images (pictures) about a certain body parts, like picture about the stomach or the chest

So when an emotion is present, identify these three components, and investigate them:
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’, ‘bad’ or ‘good’?
Or ‘happy’, ‘sad’, ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ are just mental labels on the pure sensation?
Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?
Is there REALLY ‘sadness’ or ‘sorrow’ or ‘suffering’, or are there only thoughts about ‘sadness’ or ‘suffering’?

So if you look very closely, you’ll see that there is neither sufferer, nor suffering. There are only thoughts ABOUT a sufferer and suffering. Can you see this?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Sat May 04, 2019 7:50 pm

Hi Vivian,

. Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’, ‘bad’ or ‘good’?
This is perfect I'm actually still feeling a little bit angry with someone so I'll use this. No the pure sensation does not suggest that is anger, there is sensation in the chest, stomach and jaw. The mind says 'i am angry'. And yes I can see mental images are formed.
. Or ‘happy’, ‘sad’, ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ are just mental labels on the pure sensation?
Yes I would agree.
.Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?
The pure sensation itself is neutral. My minds interpretation creates a label and story.
. Is there REALLY ‘sadness’ or ‘sorrow’ or ‘suffering’, or are there only thoughts about ‘sadness’ or ‘suffering’?
No there are just sensations , andd thoughts or interpretation about the sensations.
. So if you look very closely, you’ll see that there is neither sufferer, nor suffering. There are only thoughts ABOUT a sufferer and suffering. Can you see this?
It seems suffering/ sadness arises it is really just sensation in the body, then thought says 'i am suffering ' or 'i am sad' . Belief in the 'i' or the personal then creates a whole lot more sadnesss and suffering.

Thanks Rachel

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Vivien
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Vivien » Sat May 04, 2019 11:35 pm

Hi Rachel,

Now let’s examine the pure sensations without the labels. In reality, there are only 3 types of sensations. Pleasant, unpleasant and neutral. But usually the neutral ones are ignored, we hardly notice them. All the negative emotions generate unpleasant sensations, and in reality there is no difference in sensation of ‘sadness’, ‘anger’, ‘fear’, etc. There might be differences of the location and the intensity of the sensations, but the ‘feeling’ is the same. All these sensations feel contracted (actually the muscles are contracted). That’s why they are unpleasant.

The pleasant sensations are just the opposite of contraction, they feel open, expanded (because the muscles are relaxed) That’s why they feel pleasant. ‘Love’, ‘peace’, ‘calmness’, ‘gratitude’… these are all expanded sensations. The pure sensations of them are the same. There might be difference in location and intensity, but that’s all.

For the exercise you’ll have to bring up certain emotions, both pleasant and unpleasant ones. You don’t have to dive deeply into the unpleasant ones, you just bring up them lightly, just enough intensity that you can observe the underlying sensations.

So bring up the memory of ‘sadness’. When the sensation is present, don’t pay attention to the thought story, just stay with the pure sensation for a minute.
After about a minute let go of the sensation labelled ‘sadness’, and try to slightly feel ‘fear’ (just gently). Let go all thoughts, and just feel the pure sensation.
Now try to feel the sensation of ‘anger’ for a little while. Then let it go. Let your body calm down.
So, could you see that all the negative emotions felt very similar, contracted and unpleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?


Now bring up the feeling of ‘love’, and pay attention only to the pure sensation. Let it be there for a while.
Then bring up the feeling of ‘peace’, observe the sensation carefully.
Now bring up the feeling of ‘gratitude’, and stay with a sensation as long as you like.
So, could you see that all the positive emotions felt very similar, expanded, pleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?


And now the last step. Bring up just the feeling of an unpleasant sensation. You don’t even have to label it, just feel it. When the sensation is present observe it very carefully.
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘unpleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY unpleasant?

Now, bring up a pleasant sensation, stay with it for a while, and observe it carefully.
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘pleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY pleasant?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Sun May 05, 2019 4:54 pm

Hi,
. So, could you see that all the negative emotions felt very similar, contracted and unpleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?
Yes, it's really more the story or image that helps to differentiate, the sensation of sadness and anger both feel similar, but one has thoughts of my late cat, and the other someone who annoyed me.
. So, could you see that all the negative emotions felt very similar, contracted and unpleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?
Yes they feel contacted or tight. The images thoughts and labels help to differentiate.
. So, could you see that all the positive emotions felt very similar, expanded, pleasant?
And only the labels make them seemingly different?
Oh wow, yes they actually all felt the same only the image or thoughts used to generate each one was different, so they each received a different label of either love, peace or gratitude.
.Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘unpleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY unpleasant?
No the sensation does not suggest it is unpleasant it is just sensation. The pure sensation itself is just tightness or contraction. I wouldn't really say the sensation is that unpleasant, maybe not as much as I think it is. But it is certainly uncomfortable. It's not easy because once the thoughts stop and you focus purely on sensations they start to dissipate.
.Now, bring up a pleasant sensation, stay with it for a while, and observe it carefully.
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that it’s ‘pleasant’?
Does the pure sensation itself is REALLY pleasant?
No pure sensation does not suggest it is pleasant. But it feels pleasant., It feels nice as opposed to feeling contracted or anxious.

Thanks, Rachel

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Vivien
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Vivien » Mon May 06, 2019 2:06 am

Hi Rachel,
It's not easy because once the thoughts stop and you focus purely on sensations they start to dissipate.
Exactly! As soon as we ignore the thoughts, labels and mental images, staying only with the sensation, the sensation gradually dissipate since it’s no longer fuelled by the thoughts and images. So, if in the future when something triggers a strong reaction, and lots of thought proliferation about ‘me’ occur, you can focus on the pure sensation, so the intensity can lessen, so it will be easier to see that the ‘me’, which the whole story revolves around, is fictionary. That the whole thought-image proliferation is just like a movie. It’s not real. It’s not really there. It’s just empty, transparent images and thoughts, nothing more. Like a hologram. And what they are about are not happening.
The pure sensation itself is just tightness or contraction. I wouldn't really say the sensation is that unpleasant, maybe not as much as I think it is. But it is certainly uncomfortable.
The illusionary self main concern is these two types of sensations. It ‘wants’ to avoid all unpleasant/uncomfortable sensations at all cost, and longs for the pleasant sensations. So in essence, almost all seeming decision on behalf of the self is about wanting and not wanting these sensations. The sensations sometimes can be subtle, but even with the subtle ones, thoughts of wanting and not wanting follows them.

Observe this during the day and let me know how it goes.

And when staying with the sensation, it can be seen that they are not as bad as thoughts suggests so. And that in reality there is no ‘wanter’ or ‘not wanter’. There are only thought ABOUT ‘wanting’, but a ‘wanter’ as such cannot be found. Can you see this?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Mon May 06, 2019 10:36 pm

Observe this during the day and let me know how it goes..



It ‘wants’ to avoid all unpleasant/uncomfortable sensations at all cost, and longs for the pleasant sensations.... Yes I had been aware that I pursue things that make me feel happy and ofcourse there is the desire to avoid negative emotions, and yes I can see how they link to the contracting or relaxed sensation. So yes you could say that I pursue pleasant sensation and would like to avoid unpleasant ones , definitely.
.There are only thought ABOUT ‘wanting’, but a ‘wanter’ as such cannot be found. Can you see this?
No I cannot find a wanter. Desire just arises. A decision is made to follow it or not. I think this is along the lines of an earlier conversation we had about the'chooser'. At no stage can I find a wanter or not wanter, so earlier today I was feeling bored, this was quite a light sensation, but still uncomfortable, the desire to not feel bored (to escape the sensation) arose, then some ideas started to flow of how I could escape the boredom. A decision was made to do some gardening to escape the sensation.

Thanks Rachel

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Vivien
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Vivien » Tue May 07, 2019 1:58 am

Hi Rachel,
At no stage can I find a wanter or not wanter,
And can ‘wanting’ be found?
Can ‘not wanting’ itself be found?

What is the AE of ‘wanting’?
What is the AE of ‘not wanting’?
so earlier today I was feeling bored, this was quite a light sensation, but still uncomfortable, the desire to not feel bored (to escape the sensation) arose, then some ideas started to flow of how I could escape the boredom.
Let’s break these apart to what is REALLY happening.

How does ‘feeling bored’ is actually felt? – please describe the ‘feeling bored’ as precisely as you can.

And how does the ‘desire to not feel bored’ is actually felt? The feeling of desire itself?

How does the ‘escape of boredom’ is actually felt? The escape itself?

Go to the pure experience and ignore all labels, and find ‘boredom’, ‘desire’, ‘escape’. Where are they located exactly?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Rachszk
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Re: Die before you die

Postby Rachszk » Tue May 07, 2019 9:09 pm

. And can ‘wanting’ be found?
Can ‘not wanting’ itself be found?
There is thought 'i want' or 'i don't want' , and accompanying sensation, but no there is no 'wanting' or 'not wanting'.
. What is the AE of ‘wanting’?
What is the AE of ‘not wanting’?
There isn't actually an experience of wanting. My mind says 'i want' usually this is something I would've will make me happy, happier or help solve uncomfortable sensations.

'Not wanting', again this is in response to uncomfortable sensations or the belief that something will cause an uncomfortable sensation, so mind says, 'i do not want' but wanting and not wanting, cannot be found.
. How does ‘feeling bored’ is actually felt? – please describe the ‘feeling bored’ as precisely as you can.

And how does the ‘desire to not feel bored’ is actually felt? The feeling of desire itself?

How does the ‘escape of boredom’ is actually felt? The escape itself?

Go to the pure experience and ignore all labels, and find ‘boredom’, ‘desire’, ‘escape’. Where are they located exactly?
.

If I feel bored there is a tightness in the chest area, and possibly some uncomfortable feeling around my head area. But it's not easy to be 100% sure as's not an easy feeling to invoke. But generally it's an uncomfortable feeling, followed by the thoughts 'this is so boring' or 'im bored'. Then other thoughts follow like 'maybe I should go for a walk or start a task'. Desire and escaping, these don't actually happen, they are just words/thoughts. If I feel bored, I might think 'i don't want to feel bored' or there seems to be mental action looking to escape the boredom, which would be lists of things to do, but in ae I can't find the act/movement or feeling of 'escape' just sensation and thought. It's like there's nothing inbetween? .

Thanks
Rachel


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