insight

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:32 pm

Hello Kay,

thanks for this
But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
whatever 'now' is - I can't grasp it or measure it, it's already gone whenever I want to 'look' at it;
I can't point where exactly 'now' moves to the past or future
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
no, in any experience there is just experience
awareness of experiences happens spontaneously, the mind calls it a moment or long or short or a minute, but even a minute takes longer or shorter. I cant' predict how long is a 'moment' or how long is 'a week'
Any actual experience of one event following another?


let's say I brush my teeth and then something else happens - not known when that activity starts or finishes before something else appears, for example, looking at the computer

so it looks like the awareness of experiences appears without one event followed by another
they just appear, these events, can't see when/or where one starts or finishes
fascinating!
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
you mean the 'right now'? it's actually gone before you even start measuring it
not possible to tell how fast, 'the present moment moving' is actually a concept, idea
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
no, I can't
it is only a thought of 'this moment'
How long does the ‘now’ last?
as a concept it can last whatever long
but as an experience it doesn't exist
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
it doesn't start or end
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

as soon as i think about it - it's gone

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
it is a thought
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?
definitely, time is a thought, it is not found in the actual experience

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forgetmenot
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Re: insight

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:43 pm

Hi Alaya,
But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
whatever 'now' is - I can't grasp it or measure it, it's already gone whenever I want to 'look' at it;
I can't point where exactly 'now' moves to the past or future
What does ‘here and now’ actually point to? Does it point to a location and time or does it point to experience (THIS) that is always here now and is the ‘herenow’?

Past and memory go hand-in-hand as almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened; that a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

WHEN does the memory actually appear?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?


Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:27 pm

Hello Kay,
What does ‘here and now’ actually point to? Does it point to a location and time or does it point to experience (THIS) that is always here now and is the ‘herenow’?
it doesn't point to any location or time
yes - it rather points to experience, to whatever IS Now
What is memory exactly?
memory is a thought about the past experience, about something that has happened previously
What is the memory ‘made of’?
it is made of words and images
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
can't see any difference, it's adding thoughts to previous thoughts
the actual thought in the 'here and now' can describe what is ie there is a thought of typing words on my laptop

WHEN does the memory actually appear?
hmm, when i bring awareness to thinking then memory appears, or another form of thinking
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
it's not known, it still refers to thinking, it can also change - memory of my childhood changes
What is the future thought ‘made of’?
it is made of thinking
WHEN does the future thought appear?
when i bring awareness to thinking, there will be thoughts of future or past
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
no difference - there is a thought about another thought
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
it is not actually, a future thought refers to another thought, not to something that will happen

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
can't find the exact difference, both refer to thinking, to a story
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?
whatever is actually known - doesn't refer to the past or future

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forgetmenot
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Re: insight

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:22 pm

Hello Alaya,
What is memory exactly?
memory is a thought about the past experience, about something that has happened previously
Something that HAS happened, or something that has SUPPOSEDLY happened according to a thought story?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
it is made of words and images
Yes…the label ‘memory’ is AE of thought and not AE of memory.
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
can't see any difference, it's adding thoughts to previous thoughts
the actual thought in the 'here and now' can describe what is ie there is a thought of typing words on my laptop
The actual thought AS the herenow SEEMS to describe what is happening….but without thought suggesting this how is this known?
WHEN does the memory actually appear?
hmm, when i bring awareness to thinking then memory appears, or another form of thinking
What is it exactly that is “bringing awareness to thinking”?
Is there a thinker of thought that can control what thoughts appear, when they appear or what the content of the thought is about?


The so called 'memory' thought appears in the moment it appears.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?
it is made of thinking
The label ‘future’ is AE of thought.
WHEN does the future thought appear?
when i bring awareness to thinking, there will be thoughts of future or past
Where is this “I” that “brings awareness to thinking”?
And how do you do that…how do you bring your awareness to thinking? Please describe the steps in precise detail.


Thoughts labelled as 'future' thoughts appear in the moment they appear.
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
it is not actually, a future thought refers to another thought, not to something that will happen
Yes.
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?
whatever is actually known - doesn't refer to the past or future
Lovely

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:42 pm

Hello Kay,
memory is a thought about the past experience, about something that has happened previously
Something that HAS happened, or something that has SUPPOSEDLY happened according to a thought story?
good point, memory is a thought about another thought story, indeed about something that has supposedly happened according to a thought story
The actual thought AS the herenow SEEMS to describe what is happening….but without thought suggesting this how is this known?
good point! it is only known through a thought. there is no difference a 'general' thought and memory' thought, it is a thought in the end;
WHEN does the memory actually appear?
hmm, when i bring awareness to thinking then memory appears, or another form of thinking
What is it exactly that is “bringing awareness to thinking”?
Is there a thinker of thought that can control what thoughts appear, when they appear or what the content of the thought is about?
oh yes,
there is just focus/awareness on thinking and then it changes
there is a thought of 'me' thinking but no thinker or controller found, can't control when the thought appears!
of course!
so yes, the memory appears when it appears
- it is nearly too simple for the thinking mind! the thinking wants to make it more complicated than it is!

Where is this “I” that “brings awareness to thinking”?
And how do you do that…how do you bring your awareness to thinking? Please describe the steps in precise detail.
it is thinking of 'me' doing something
'i' can't bring anything to thinking... i can't stop it either, it just happens, thinking just appears when experiencing thoughts,
this 'me bringing awareness to thinking' was already a story made of thoughts,words

Thanks for those pointers Kay! this is pretty exciting!

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forgetmenot
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Re: insight

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:19 pm

Hello Alaya,
What is it exactly that is “bringing awareness to thinking”?
Is there a thinker of thought that can control what thoughts appear, when they appear or what the content of the thought is about?
oh yes, there is just focus/awareness on thinking and then it changes
there is a thought of 'me' thinking but no thinker or controller found, can't control when the thought appears!
of course!
so yes, the memory appears when it appears
- it is nearly too simple for the thinking mind! the thinking wants to make it more complicated than it is!
Yes…the ‘thinking mind’ loves complications! :) When thoughts about life become complicated...you know that the 'thinking mind' is in play!
Where is this “I” that “brings awareness to thinking”?
And how do you do that…how do you bring your awareness to thinking? Please describe the steps in precise detail.
it is thinking of 'me' doing something
'i' can't bring anything to thinking... i can't stop it either, it just happens, thinking just appears when experiencing thoughts,
this 'me bringing awareness to thinking' was already a story made of thoughts,words
Yes..so there is simply thoughts ABOUT a ‘me’ who is thinking, but thoughts just appear indiscriminately.
Thanks for those pointers Kay! this is pretty exciting!
You’re welcome! :) You are doing great!


Okay, so let’s look at the idea of time and memory in the following exercise.

Look into the mirror throughout the day. Body image appears... notice that all that's really there are some colours, and a thought-story saying 'these colours are my body'

When you return to the mirror each time, consider whether these 'body colours' have ever appeared before.

Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?

Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?

Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?

Do that for today and report back what you find.


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:56 pm

Hello Kay,

thanks for this :)
Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?
yes, I thought this body + image has appeared before and i rather treated it this way
however every time i look at it in the mirror there is a different story and different colour - when i really look at it , every time there is a fresh/new looking
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
can find it only in my ideas, thoughts
it can't be known that the body has appeared before, the thinking mind thinks it has appeared

there is this colour, form but it constantly changes so it never appears the same
Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?
well, there is the appearance which is appearing
and the thought says it's always been the same 'me' and 'my body' -
I can see here how the story is fixed and habitual
if i look at the appearance in the mirror without paying attention to thinking, there is a new looking at the colour and shape

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Re: insight

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:31 pm

Hi Alaya,
Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?
yes, I thought this body + image has appeared before and i rather treated it this way
however every time i look at it in the mirror there is a different story and different colour - when i really look at it , every time there is a fresh/new looking
What makes it seem as if there is “fresh/new looking”?
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
can find it only in my ideas, thoughts
it can't be known that the body has appeared before, the thinking mind thinks it has appeared
Is there a ‘my ideas, thoughts’? Are thoughts actually appearing to a someone?
Where does the knowing of thought end and the thought begin?
Is there a border where thought stops and the knowing of it begins?

there is this colour, form but it constantly changes so it never appears the same
How is it known that colour constantly changes? Are there many different colourS or just colour? When looking at this picture, thought automatically divides and labels colour into many different colours, then further names those colours into specific objects.

IGNORE ALL object labels and colour labels - are there many colourS? Or is there simply colour?
Is there an actual gap between the ‘trees’?
Where does colour begin and end?


Image

Now let’s take this further.

Sit in a chair somewhere quiet and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and start to notice just the ‘body’, the chair, floor, rugs, furniture and walls. Without thought, all there is, is colour which thought then labels as clothes, or body, chair, wall etc (we are only looking at colour for this exercise).

Now look carefully.
1. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’ be found?
2. Is there a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?
3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and colour labelled ‘furniturel’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’ and the ‘furniture’ or is there just simply colour
3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug and furniture’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’, ‘furniture’ and the ‘wall’ or is there just simply colour?
What do you find?

Is there an actual dividing line between any of these “colourS” or are they just simply seamless colour which thought divides into ‘things’ and further divides in into many different colourS and labels them as pink, black, yellow, green etc?

Is there such a thing as “space” or “distance”?

Is there an actual body/you sitting in a chair, or all there is, is colour?

Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?
well, there is the appearance which is appearing
Is there an appearance appearing, or is there simply AE of colour which is known?
And is there a seeing AND colour or are they one and the same?

and the thought says it's always been the same 'me' and 'my body' –
I can see here how the story is fixed and habitual
if i look at the appearance in the mirror without paying attention to thinking, there is a new looking at the colour and shape

What is the AE of ‘mirror’?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:36 am

Hi Kay,

hope you are well,

I am now working on a week-long retreat - thought will have more free time but the program is quite full;

Finishing on Friday morning and will get back to you with the response to the last exercise on that day

hope that's ok

Alaya xx

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Re: insight

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:27 am

Hi Alaya....enjoy your retreat :) Look forward to hearing from you when you return.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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forgetmenot
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Re: insight

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:56 pm

Hello Alaya...are you continuing with this exploration? If not, can you please let me know.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:34 pm

Hello Kay,

Sorry for the delay, Yes - I wish to continue with the exploration - my laptop broke down in the weekend and was not able to respond

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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:54 pm

Hello Kay,
yes, I thought this body + image has appeared before and i rather treated it this way
however every time i look at it in the mirror there is a different story and different colour - when i really look at it , every time there is a fresh/new looking
What makes it seem as if there is “fresh/new looking”?
just being aware if it, bringing attention to looking makes it 'fresh'
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
can find it only in my ideas, thoughts
it can't be known that the body has appeared before, the thinking mind thinks it has appeared
Is there a ‘my ideas, thoughts’? Are thoughts actually appearing to a someone?
no,thought actually just appearing - 'appearing to someone' is actually a thought of a thought
Where does the knowing of thought end and the thought begin?
they are the same thing,aren't they?
Is there a border where thought stops and the knowing of it begins?
no,can't find any - thought 'stops' when the focus/awareness is moved onto a different experience eg sensation


Moving onto the next exploration :
IGNORE ALL object labels and colour labels - are there many colourS? Or is there simply colour?
when ignoring the object/colour labels - well there is A colour, / shape thats it
Is there an actual gap between the ‘trees’?
no, no gap found
Where does colour begin and end?
uhmm, it doesn't . it doesn't have the beginning or ending, it's just there; there isn't a designated place for it to begin or end - looks like the beginning or ending is made up - another story
1. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’ be found?
can't find a dividing line between colours
2. Is there a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?
no, can't find a dividing line here either
3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and colour labelled ‘furniturel’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’ and the ‘furniture’ or is there just simply colour
there is colour, can't find dividing line between the colours/objects
no space found - just colour
What do you find?
a blend of colour, can't find space here, that's interesting!
Is there an actual dividing line between any of these “colourS” or are they just simply seamless colour which thought divides into ‘things’ and further divides in into many different colourS and labels them as pink, black, yellow, green etc?
indeed with just looking there is just one colour , it is the thinking which then separates it all and labels it
Is there such a thing as “space” or “distance”?
can't find it within this excercise
with simply looking at colour - sense of space/distance dissappears
Is there an actual body/you sitting in a chair, or all there is, is colour?
there is colour , as everything else around - that when drop the labels of objects, there is just colour/shape left



Is there an appearance appearing, or is there simply AE of colour which is known?
an appearance manifests in the AE as colour , yes that is what is known - the rest comes through a story/thinking
And is there a seeing AND colour or are they one and the same?
uhmmm! good question!
it twists my brain&body

seeing is not sepparate from colour , they are indeed one and the same!
What is the AE of ‘mirror’?
the AE of 'mirror' is the AE of colour/shape

Thank you!

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forgetmenot
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Re: insight

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:37 am

Hello Alaya,
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
can find it only in my ideas, thoughts
it can't be known that the body has appeared before, the thinking mind thinks it has appeared

Drop the 'my' and all this is found/known is thought. There is no 'my' needed in that sentence!

Where is this ‘thinking mind’ exactly? Where is it located?
Is there a ‘my ideas, thoughts’? Are thoughts actually appearing to a someone?
no,thought actually just appearing - 'appearing to someone' is actually a thought of a thought
Yes, exactly!
Where does the knowing of thought end and the thought begin?
they are the same thing,aren't they?
Yes, exactly…so how can thoughts (or sensations, taste etc) be appearing to a someone, or happening to someine if the knowing and known are one and the same?
Is there a border where thought stops and the knowing of it begins?
no,can't find any - thought 'stops' when the focus/awareness is moved onto a different experience eg sensation
How is it known that thoughts are different to sensations? And how is it known that colour is different to taste and smell is different to sound?

Moving onto the next exploration :
IGNORE ALL object labels and colour labels - are there many colourS? Or is there simply colour?
when ignoring the object/colour labels - well there is A colour, / shape thats it
Yes..simply AE of colour. Experience/THIS doesn’t become the trees, the trees are experience/THIS. There is a difference!
Is there an actual gap between the ‘trees’?
no, no gap found
Exactly..it is on thought that says there is a gap between the trees, when it is simply AE of colour. No beginning or end!
Where does colour begin and end?
uhmm, it doesn't . it doesn't have the beginning or ending, it's just there; there isn't a designated place for it to begin or end - looks like the beginning or ending is made up - another story
Yes, a very clever story! Quite amazing when you think about it!
1. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’ be found?
can't find a dividing line between colours

2. Is there a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?
no, can't find a dividing line here either

3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and colour labelled ‘furniturel’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’ and the ‘furniture’ or is there just simply colour
there is colour, can't find dividing line between the colours/objects
no space found - just colour

What do you find?
a blend of colour, can't find space here, that's interesting!
Yes..no space or distance!

Have a look at the following picture. Thought says that the door is open and that there is space between the edge of the door that is seen and the wall behind the door. But is there?

Image

Now, go open your front door like it is in this picture and have a look. Is the open door actually taking up ‘space’? And is there ‘space’ between door and the wall behind the door? What is actual experience?
Is there an actual dividing line between any of these “colourS” or are they just simply seamless colour which thought divides into ‘things’ and further divides in into many different colourS and labels them as pink, black, yellow, green etc?i
indeed with just looking there is just one colour , it is the thinking which then separates it all and labels it
Yes!
Is there such a thing as “space” or “distance”?
can't find it within this excercise
with simply looking at colour - sense of space/distance disappears
Yes!
Is there an actual body/you sitting in a chair, or all there is, is colour?
there is colour , as everything else around - that when drop the labels of objects, there is just colour/shape left
Yes…so how can there be a ‘me’ or a ‘body’ in colour, when only colour is known? And how can colour see?! :)
Is there an appearance appearing, or is there simply AE of colour which is known?
an appearance manifests in the AE as colour , yes that is what is known - the rest comes through a story/thinking
How is something actually manifesting in colour? When you look at those pictures where you have to find an animal in it. The one’s where you have to look carefully and eventually you will see an animal or something within the picture. Did that animal just manifest or was it always there and thought then chimes in with "oh look, there is an animal in that picture"? Isn’t the picture always there...not changing at all? Does it change so that the animal can manifest?

And is there a seeing AND colour or are they one and the same?
uhmmm! good question!
it twists my brain&body

seeing is not sepparate from colour , they are indeed one and the same!
Haha! Yep! Nicely done! There is no separation! Seeing and knowing are one and the same. Seeing of colour and seeing of seeing are one and the same = colour. Drop the label ‘colour’ and all there is, is knowing aka THIS/experience.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:16 pm

Hello Kay,
Where is this ‘thinking mind’ exactly? Where is it located?
it doesn't have a location, it's a story, it's made up and it simply appears, same as sensation just appears
Yes, exactly…so how can thoughts (or sensations, taste etc) be appearing to a someone, or happening to someine if the knowing and known are one and the same?
yes,that's clear - there is nothing actually happens or appears to anyone , there simply is appearance
How is it known that thoughts are different to sensations? And how is it known that colour is different to taste and smell is different to sound?
through the actual,direct experience
i don't know how it is different but in the sound there is sound and in the ae of sensation there is sensation only
it doesn't know the experience of difference though
Now, go open your front door like it is in this picture and have a look. Is the open door actually taking up ‘space’? And is there ‘space’ between door and the wall behind the door? What is actual experience?
yes, when I just look and don't think about it, there is no space, there has never been any space
in the actual experience there is looking at colour/shape; it reminds me of a photo - when you take a photo or on a painting there is no space between the objects, just colour ; even to create a 'space' on the painting one needs to add some colour!
How is something actually manifesting in colour?
well even 'colour' is a lable,right?
there are appearances / manifestations all within one/a field of awareness, and that's in a way manifesting in colour
Again, it doesn't begins or ends or even it doesn't have any boundry; all is connected with no space or distance in between- here in this exercise in the AE it/experience can actually be seen as colour
Isn’t the picture always there...not changing at all? Does it change so that the animal can manifest?
that's true, the picture is always there
it the way it's looked at which changes
wheter it is looked with awareness or with lack of awareness


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