Awakened not Enlightened

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Chantelly
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Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:16 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand the the self is an idea of who we think we are. We identify with our car, our tattoos, our piercings, our ideas. But we are none of these things. We are of the same dust as the Ultimate. LU hopefully helps to direct us seekers to looking through the correct lens of truth.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm hoping LU can help me see through that correct lens of truth. I feel I have seen a glimpse or many but as many of us seekers say, it always leaves. As I've heard, once you've truly seen the truth, it never leaves, and that's what I'm hoping for some extra help with.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't really expect anything in particular. I'm hoping for someone who has reached Enlightenment will have some more insight and wisdom and therefore be able to see where I am in my path. From there, by using questions or maybe advice, they can lead me. I understand the goal here is not to be a teacher but more like a friend who helps and points. I get that a teacher and student relationship can create more ideas as the teacher has attained Enlightenment in their own way and in this way, you are helped along your own journey perhaps.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I reached what I think of now as my initial awakening when I was 15 or 17 and since then have been very aware. Because I have lived with it for half of my life, it just is, it is how I live my life and isn't anything special. However, I would not call it Enlightenment. Recently, maybe 6 months, I have learned of Unity Consciousness and this is what I now seek. I meditate daily, only for about 30 minutes, I try to be fully Mindful at all times which is so hard to do even when the awareness is really always floating in the background. I read a few books, not many, on chakras, Buddhism and so on. Mostly, I listen to podcasts and others' amazing stories. I feel an improvement with mediation but I know deep down I still identify with "me" and am attached to this life in the form of people mostly but other things too, my car and so on. I haven't spoken with anyone. I've gone to a few meditation meetings at a Buddhist temple, I do yoga. I love my life, the ups and downs. I feel like this is probably because of the awareness but when that seeking bug gets you, it gets you, doesn't it. I am not sure if I can place my finger directly on why Unity Consciousness has become so important to me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Ilona
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Hi Chantelle,
Welcome to the forum, glad you made it here.
Thank you for patience waiting for a guide. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.
Let’s agree that you will write to me from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.

Tell me, what are you really looking for. How would your life change if you find that? What are you hoping for? What do you want to happen? What is incomplete right now?

Take your time with these questions.
Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Chantelly
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:50 am

Hi Ilona, thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it.

Tell me, what are you really looking for. How would your life change if you find that? What are you hoping for? What do you want to happen? What is incomplete right now?

[/quote]

I am looking for nothing; I am looking for a personal touch or connection. To questions that won't allow me to wrap my mind, or rather escape my mind, from this seeking. I am almost looking for an understanding to life. To loose the anxious thoughts or the connection and identification with the endless thoughts. I think I am detached but when i look deeper, i see subtly how i associate my self with personality traits I've built, music I enjoy. I am looking for freedom, I guess. I would hope that life wouldn't change after realizing that. I like life as it is, as I've said. I don't really think that it would change, just that I wouldn't be so attached, that I can see the whole picture and really truly be in the moment and the life that I do enjoy. I want that to happen I suppose-a lightness of mind. Sometimes it just feels so heavy. I feel like I used to be lighter and my environment, jobs, people and life has weighed me down. I've become more judgmental and negative. I want that to go away. I can see that may not necessarily happen but it seems to me that the compassion that comes with seeing unity, dissipates such negative feelings towards others. Or at least maybe to be able to let that idea float over and dissipate rather than hold on to it, become angry and then worry that I feel and think that way. I feel the incompleteness of separation. A blockage. Otherwise, not much is incomplete. I'm pretty happy.
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Ilona
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:14 pm

Thank you for reply. It’s quite vague. As if you are not sure what you are looking for. You say you are happy and enjoy life, but there is something incomplete. And maybe you are looking for freedom. You can’t be vague in this inquiry. You have to be honest and open. You have to be willing to look and describe what you see as you see it. So let’s get focused and laser sharp.

What is in the way of freedom?
What is in the way of lightness of the mind?
How do you know that you are separate? And separate from what?

Explore this fully and write to me
Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Chantelly
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:30 am

Thank you for reply. It’s quite vague. As if you are not sure what you are looking for.
You're right, it is vague. I'm not sure how to put it into words because I've only seen it in glimpses. So I sat with that today and felt the thing I am looking for, in one word, is clarity.
What is in the way of freedom?

Thoughts are in the way of freedom. I think about everything! I'm a huge planner. I do have two questions that specifically ruminate and seem to block the freedom: free will- I understand the idea that what is done, is done. The choice was made, you cannot go back and so how do you know there was the possibility of a different choice, it all arises as it is. But when I'm sitting here about to make a choice, I can choose in that moment. and isn't that all there is? That moment I choose coffee or tea. It seems narrow minded to say there is no free will just because you can't go back and point at it, just like the self. You can't see the wind, or point at it, yet it exists.
Second: It seems to me that to live in the true now, all else would fall apart. I have to make decisions about the future. Such as, go to work. If I don't go, I lose my job, my home and live on the street. There has to be some future thought. I guess the idea behind this though, is while you get up and get ready for work, you are doing it fully, in that moment-? The moment has consequences.
What is in the way of lightness of the mind?
Isn't this the same thing as freedom?
How do you know that you are separate? And separate from what?

I'm not separate, am I? It is ever present, the presence, the alive hum. However, I can tell that my mind is making me feel separate because I can feel a constant yearning. Also, once, so clearly, I felt unity. The piece of tile in the shower was a part of me, all of us and yet I couldn't even say "us" because it was such a mesh of oneness. I do not feel that hardly ever. Even for example today, I was out running, I stopped at a favorite spot and watched the creek and two mallards. As I did this, I had (almost) no thought. hehe. I was only aware of sound, the view and the way the breeze felt. But it is almost like the watcher, the awareness that is aware of sensations is what is binding me back into duality. This seems a paradox-? Separate from what is a great question and one I haven't been to word still all day. Separate from that oneness...separate from Being, all creation and expression. Here, I fear we may never get to the bottom of my mind because this seems to be a secular site and I do believe in something higher...

Anyway, thanks again for your help.
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Chantelly
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:07 am

p.s. that is not to say that I think the secular vs the the belief of something larger are incompatible. I do think that the function of LU and the way of questioning and pointing is useful no matter what. It's genius really. I really do look forward to the conversations. I just wonder what you think, if you think someone with a belief of Being is "help-able" or if the belief system has to be completely torn down. I can see that this is a huge fear that arises.
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Ilona
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Ilona » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:02 pm

Dear Chantelly,
Thank you for answer and reflections.
: It seems to me that to live in the true now, all else would fall apart.
Interesting.. what is that would fall apart? What is there that depends on your thinking so it does not fall apart? Take a good look, what are you doing right this moment for all this to be here? What are you doing in order to be? To be alive, to be aware?

When you look up at the sky and see a black cloud, full of water, it’s almost raining... then at some point it starts pouring down. Was there a free will in that, to start or not to start raining? Was there a decision made “now I am starting to rain” or “let it begin”? What makes the rain to start? And can it stop raining before it is ready?

See, all the situations already have the outcome, the choice that feels right, in that given situation knowing what you know is the only way to go. Can you say that there is a free will to choose and do something outside of the situation, independently of what is happening? Examine that in the choice you made today.

As for belief system, it has been built over many years. All beliefs are not truth. Loosing an old belief that no longer serves is not a loss. It’s like taking shoes off that have been hurting feet is not a loss. But to challenge the belief system takes some courage and fire for truth no matter what. One thing- nothing that is true is threatened, what is not true falls away. That’s where clarity is found. Are you up for the challenge?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Chantelly
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:42 pm

Good Morning Ilona!
what are you doing right this moment for all this to be here? What are you doing in order to be? To be alive, to be aware?
Nothing =)
See, all the situations already have the outcome, the choice that feels right, in that given situation knowing what you know is the only way to go. Can you say that there is a free will to choose and do something outside of the situation, independently of what is happening? Examine that in the choice you made today.
This is somehow beautiful and comforting. I will examine this as I make choices today.
One thing- nothing that is true is threatened, what is not true falls away. That’s where clarity is found. Are you up for the challenge?
Beautiful. Yes, I am.

Peace
Chantel
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Ilona
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:32 pm

Dear Chantel, I’m looking froward to your report :)
Love
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Chantelly
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:17 am

Hi Ilona! Sorry, I was confused haha.

I see clearly that life just arises. You are put into these moments of seeming decisions. Everything is true but something is more true. That's amazing. For some reason, this has made me feel so much less stress. I always felt as though I need to make a decision and then regretted if I didn't just do something. I can still feel that stress a little bit but I feel more like, it's ok, this is how it's supposed to be.
It does give way to the question of wrong decisions though-big ones. Like this may give people the idea that it's ok to kill another. There was never a decision anyway. Of course, this is an extreme example but this does happen in our world.
I do have a question as far as self. I don't relate too much to my identity. I mean, I know that I'm named Chantel, not that I AM Chantel. However, there are things that are more pleasing to this Chantel to that Jane. For example, it's easy to notice that the color orange catches my attention. Automatically. I see that this points to there is no doing, or no one doing it, it just is but if the color blue automatically attracts Jane's attention, don't these small enjoyments that arise all begin to stick together and begin to form a personality? It may not mean that I am who I am due to the color orange but it does make me different than Jane, right? We are individual expressions of life.

Thanks so much,
Chantelly Lace
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Ilona
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:23 pm

Thank you for reply. Yes, there is uniqueness and individuality, there is character with all the likes, dislikes, skills, talents and ways. That’s not going anywhere. We are from different parents and environments with different DNR codes. The question here is tris: is there a center to which all this stick to or that can choose it’s own set of code?
If you look at trees and flowers, the big tree grows out of a seed and is different than a flower. The seed already has all information that is required for it to grow into a full plant and bloom.. and if you look at pets, dogs, cats, they too are unique and have personality. But what is that it says- this is my character, I am this person, I am a separate self with free will and choice to be what I want to be.

Is personality something you choose?
And what does the character stick to? In other words, is there an actor that plays the role?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Chantelly
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:38 pm

is there a center to which all this stick to or that can choose it’s own set of code?
It seems there is a center or something it can all stick to but not of its own choosing.
But what is that it says- this is my character, I am this person, I am a separate self with free will and choice to be what I want to be.

Nothing, this is just a story the mind is telling.
Is personality something you choose?
No.
And what does the character stick to? In other words, is there an actor that plays the role?
That is how I view it, as a role. Actors playing all these roles that life requires. I don't know what it is all sticking to...some sort of Being that is taking up the space of this body. Maybe it's the other way around. These thoughts that make up a personality aren't sticking TO anything. It's arising from the center and flowing outwards.

Feel like I'm not identifying with Chantel but to something subtler but still identifying.
Thanks,
Chantel
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Ilona
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:32 pm

it seems there is a center or something it can all stick to but not of its own choosing.
Let’s have a closer look here. It seems that there is. Is there? Look till you know.
What is the glue made from? What makes that sticky?
Is there a being inside the body?
Is awareness limited by the bag of skin?
When a distant sound is heard is it heard inside or outside of being?

Here are some questions for you to play with.
Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Chantelly
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Chantelly » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:31 am

Let’s have a closer look here. It seems that there is. Is there? Look till you know.
What is the glue made from? What makes that sticky?
I have to be honest, this was so frustrating for me today. Because this is where I really get stuck. My mind can bring up a million scenarios to "prove me right!" As I sat in meditation, I felt so close to understanding, I felt like the top of my head was going to pop off. There's no glue. I tried so hard to define what it is or what it sticks to or makes it sticky but I just can't find any description, obviously because it isn't there. If anything, the thoughts are the glue. The personality, the thoughts, everything just arises. It's just happening...(to me)...

Immediately my thoughts say well a whole different set of a situation is happening to Jane. ...And I feel the separation.... I know, the thoughts are constructing the story and they are arising all on their own but they're occurring in my experience, not Jane's, at least not that I know of...
Is there a being inside the body?

Not inside but everywhere.
Is awareness limited by the bag of skin?

My immediate reaction is no. Then I realized that deep down, I do think this! This is what's getting me stuck! I do see how hearing a distant sound or smelling something is outside the body, happening. But what about sensations. That doesn't go beyond the body. At least in my direct experience. I can't say that this keyboard can feel anything. Only my fingers feel a quick tapping.

Sincerely Frustrated,
"me" =D
shanti, shanti, shanti

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Ilona
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Re: Awakened not Enlightened

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:53 pm

Thank you for honesty.
Yes, there are thoughts about Jane and how her experience is different than yours. Notice that these are your thoughts about someone else’s thoughts. You know of your thoughts, right? And these thoughts tell a story that seems to be truth, in the story. There is a story about separation, two different unique characters apparently separate from each other. But are you separate from life happening? Is there a gap between you and life, Jane and life? Thoughts and life? Emotions and life? What is actually separate and from what exactly?

Watch this video, it may help you to untangle the confusion.
https://youtu.be/vVfvRetanr0

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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