Clearing

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Anastacia42
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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:16 pm

Good morning!

Yes, laughter happens a lot with this process. Happy to make you laugh. Laughter happens when we integrate a paradox. When we see beyond two to One.

2. What is here without labels?

I don’t think I understand this question:-). Without labels, it’s just things happening - hearing, feeling, sitting, drinking, looking...without adding the ‘I’ who claims to do them. Another way I understood this question...what is here is just things happening by themselves, no one to make them happen, no one to do them.


You do understand the question. Without labels, Just happening. No one to make it happen. Yes.
It seems like the ‘I am’ drinking comes AFTER the fact of drinking. Drinking happens first, then ‘I am’ doing the drinking comes next...but it’s not true.
Yes, again. That's it exactly.
first 10 minutes of describing using ‘I’ felt familiar. But the body felt constricted
Yes. There is another reason that it feels constricted. It's a lie. You may notice that when you are saying something untrue, you will feel a constriction in your gut or your heart; sometimes people feel it in their throats. However, with something true that's not there. And with a strong truth there's a sense of openness and relaxation, even joy.
I felt like the only responsibility I had was to report what was happening instead of claiming ‘I’ was doing anything.
Who is this "I" who felt like?

We may use the word for convenience, but truthfully, just "feeling" is more accurate
I also sensed a tug of war, thoughts saying ‘this is too simple’. ‘You can’t do anything without the ‘I’.
Again, what "I?" The tug-of-war you mention? Is there really such a thing happening, or is it only thought that says so? Content of thought is never actually experienced. So is there an Actual Experience of a tug-of-war? Or just thought arising?

Good work!

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Alexa
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Re: Clearing

Postby Alexa » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:44 pm

Hi!!

Thanks for the quick reply! This ‘I’ is very sneaky!
Who is this "I" who felt like?
There is no ‘I’ who feels, there is only a feeling of responsibility.
Again, what "I?" The tug-of-war you mention? Is there really such a thing happening, or is it only thought that says so? Content of thought is never actually experienced. So is there an Actual Experience of a tug-of-war? Or just thought arising?
Wow!!!!! The tug of war never happened - just thought arising and making up an imaginary scene.

So whenever a feeling comes up, that’s raw sensation without an owner? When a thought comes up, just thought without an owner?...So who knows that there is a feeling or thought? If the ‘I’ is additional to direct experience and the ‘I’ is not there, who can know direct experiences?

Love,
Alexa

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Anastacia42
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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:04 pm

Good morning!

Yes, checking these replies AM & PM when I can. :) It's usually the most fun all day.

Still being sneaky - with no use of the word, "I" still there is content of thought here:
Who is this "I" who felt like?
There is no ‘I’ who feels, there is only a feeling of responsibility
Mmm hmm - and is this "feeling" of "responsibility" AE?

Note: Using "feeling" is confusing. There are "emotions" and "sensations" both referred to with this word, so using one of those, "sensation" or "emotion" is clearer. :)
Wow!!!!! The tug of war never happened - just thought arising and making up an imaginary scene.
Correct! Much truer - and therefore, more relaxed - this way.
So whenever a feeling comes up, that’s raw sensation without an owner? When a thought comes up, just thought without an owner?...So who knows that there is a feeling or thought? If the ‘I’ is additional to direct experience and the ‘I’ is not there, who can know direct experiences?
Yes. No one can know Direct Experience.

Any words we put to it are going to be a bit untrue, but languaging this as "Awareness" can work. "Aware-ing" happens. Language has to be cut to fit the truth. It is rooted in the untruth. Naming implies a separate thing.

Some use "consciousness," but that has so much baggage these past 20 years that it is avoided. It is stressful and effort full to do what people call "be conscious." As was seen with the Doership turning the head exercise, it is simply not. It is effortless.

We even have a "Conscious Coffee" brand here in Colorado. Imagining little Pac Man guys pouring into a cup. *laughing*


Looking at an Object

Wherever you are sitting right now, look for an object to use. Don’t pick up the object or turn it around, only look at what can be seen without touching it or turning it.

Have one?

Now look at it and describe what you see. Give yourself a bit of time with it. Just look,nothing else.

Done?

Now describe the back side of the object.

How is it known what the back side looks like?

What tells what it looks like?

How can it be known that there is a back at all? That the object is 3D?

Can this be known in direct experience?

Can an object be known at all?


Do you read science fiction? Robert A. Heinlein? Stranger in a Strange Land? In that book, there is a role called, "Fair Witness." They are trained to say only and precisely what they see, nothing more, nothing less. So, when asked, "What color is that house on the hill?" The character, Anne, replies, "It is white on this side."

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Alexa
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Re: Clearing

Postby Alexa » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 am

Morning!
Mmm hmm - and is this "feeling" of "responsibility" AE?
Nope, not AE. A thought generated sensation, sounds more true :-)
Yes. No one can know Direct Experience.
Interesting...so Direct Experience is known by no one, because who would that ‘someone’ be? Thought has to say ‘someone’?
We even have a "Conscious Coffee" brand here in Colorado.
Hilarious :-). You are in Colorado, must be beautiful over there!!
Now describe the back side of the object.
A shoe: I can only describe the back side of the object by referring to memory, because I wear the shoe regularly.
What tells what it looks like?
Thought does. The eyes only see one side of the shoe, or whatever they happen to see....thought formulates a dimension of the back using memory or imagination.
How can it be known that there is a back at all? That the object is 3D?
Just by seeing, you can’t know there is a back at all or if it’s 3D. The eyes making contact with the shoe just register a shape, but thought adds that it is a ‘shoe’ and it can be worn and that it has a back etc.
Can this be known in direct experience?
The only direct experience is seeing.
Can an object be known at all?
Since the only direct experience is seeing, and the eyes don’t say ‘this is an object’, only thought can have the ability to say ‘it’s an object’. So an object is not known by the act of seeing alone.
Do you read science fiction? Robert A. Heinlein? Stranger in a Strange Land?
I should start...what an amazing quote!

Thank you :-)
Alexa

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Anastacia42
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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:08 pm

Good morning!
A thought generated sensation, sounds more true :-)
So, looking really carefully, can a thought generate a sensation? Or where does it come from?

Thought has to say ‘someone’?
Thought is not required to say "someone," but it tends to do that until we see through it. Then it may or may not, but we know not to believe it. We have looked and seen it differently.

Yes, I love Colorado! I was born in Fort Worth Texas, and have been here for 22 years.
..thought formulates a dimension of the back using memory or imagination.
Yes, and what is memory? Is it Actual Experience?

There are a couple of memory exercises that I will be giving you. If I forget, help me remember. Just kidding. :-)
Can an object be known at all?
Since the only direct experience is seeing, and the eyes don’t say ‘this is an object’, only thought can have the ability to say ‘it’s an object’. So an object is not known by the act of seeing alone.
Is the object actually known by the content of thought, which we know to be made up?

Notice that you did not answer the first part of this question. Can an object be known at all? Yes or no?


Science fiction is wonderful fun. When we're done, you might want to read some of the books on the recommended reading list on this side. They're about seeing no srlf.
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Alexa
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Re: Clearing

Postby Alexa » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:10 am

Hi!!
So, looking really carefully, can a thought generate a sensation? Or where does it come from?
It feels like a thought generated it because the content of thought was believed to be true. No a thought can’t generate a sensation, because content of thought is not direct experience.
Yes, and what is memory? Is it Actual Experience?
Memory is also thought about the past. Which means it’s not actual experience!
Is the object actually known by the content of thought, which we know to be made up?
No, the object cannot be known by the content of thought. Content of thought is not actual experience and thus cannot know anything.
Notice that you did not answer the first part of this question. Can an object be known at all? Yes or no?
Haha, sorry! No, an object can’t be known. We have to refer to thought to call something an ‘object’, and content of thought is made up and not direct experience.

Alexa

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Anastacia42
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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:46 am

Very good.

You have already mentioned several times and in the questions at the beginning, that you see that there is no decision, no control, no intention, no free will. But since we're going through the exercises, here is one for those stories.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on. Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Just to see what details may show up that you may not have noticed yet.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Alexa
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Re: Clearing

Postby Alexa » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:10 am

Morning!

So this excercise was scary! I know this is an opinion of thought but I wanted to tell you right off the bat, that there was some weird discomfort or fear. I’ll explain :-)
How is the movement controlled?
I don’t know - I couldn’t find who or what was controlling the movement. The hands flipped up and down on their own.
Does a thought control it?
No. Thought wanted to know ‘how’ the hands were moving, and wanted to make a story about something, but thought can’t control anything.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No, a controller couldn’t be found. There was a sense that something was watching the hands move, and a sense that ‘I’ was deciding to move the hands but I couldn’t find this ‘I’ that was deciding to move the hands.
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
This part was uncomfortable. I did this excercise thorougout the day yesterday and I couldn’t find a point where a decision was made to turn the hand over - but yet the hand moved anyway. Then I had this aha moment - please don’t laugh at me on this...I saw myself as an embryo and asked, ‘what made that embryo grow in my mother’s womb...what made me move when I was a fetus?’.

Anyway, that aha moment made me realize a similar discovery with moving my hand - no one was controlling the embryo grow or fetus move, which is the same as, no one controlled the hand moving either.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No, I couldn’t find a separate individual called ‘Alexa’ choosing when to turn palm up or down. All I could find was movement.

Alexa

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Anastacia42
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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:12 pm

Good morning!

Perfect!

You can enjoy it feeling scary if you like, but it's always been like this. You're just noticing it. So if everything has been working so far, it is a pretty good bet that things will continue to work.
Then I had this aha moment - please don’t laugh at me on this...I saw myself as an embryo and asked, ‘what made that embryo grow in my mother’s womb...what made me move when I was a fetus?’.
Have I ever laughed at you, yet? I may laugh because of how true it is, but that would be all.

First thing I want you to do is remember a time when you felt "scared," and name the Body Sensations you had. Then I want you to find a time when you felt "excited" and name the Body Sensations you had.

Report the sensations here.

Compare them. See anything interesting?


Let's do another kind of like Palm Flipping.

Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where 'Alexa' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens.

There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'Alexa' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?


Love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Alexa
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Re: Clearing

Postby Alexa » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:45 pm

Morning!!
Have I ever laughed at you, yet? I may laugh because of how true it is, but that would be all.
Haha, no you haven’t :-). Sometimes the things thoughts say to me are strange, and ‘regular’ people have a hard time understanding me!
First thing I want you to do is remember a time when you felt "scared," and name the Body Sensations you had. Then I want you to find a time when you felt "excited" and name the Body Sensations you had.
The body sensations when I felt scared and times I felt excited seem the same. Same sensations but thought has named them differently- ‘scared’, ‘excited’. But the sensations themselves have the same energy to them.
Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?
No, it didn’t choose any of its directions - it just appears to choose its directions. It’s not a separate entity operating itself, not the same entity moment by moment, how could it be? It’s all an appearance.
1. Can you find anywhere where 'Alexa' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?
I can’t find anywhere where Alexa comes in, and takes over the flow of life, where the flow of life was already happening. That seems impossible!
2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens.
Just like the stream flowing, the decision on what to wear, what to eat for lunch or any decision was already made, but not by an entity called ‘Alexa’. The decision was already made, then a someone called ‘Alexa’ thinks she made the decision AFTER the fact.
Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?
No entity to be found. How can a river flow by itself, a tree grow, a baby grow, a bee fly, life all around flow on its on, but somehow an entity called ‘Alexa’ happened to be the only living being making decisions to flow life, not possible. The only thing I find is patterns, life flowing, life moving, life living, and nothing living life. ‘Alexa’ is not living something called ‘Life’. ‘Alexa’ is life itself flowing.
3. Can anything be found for which 'Alexa' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?
No in the bigger sense. There is a sense of responsibility for my kids, but that comes from the natural instinct of what I am, but it’s not something ‘Alexa’ chose to do.

Thank you :-)

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Anastacia42
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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:31 pm

Good morning!

It is so clear that you are seeing. The exercises are designed for people who do the exercises in order to see. This is just a little bit of polishing.
The body sensations when I felt scared and times I felt excited seem the same. Same sensations but thought has named them differently- ‘scared’, ‘excited’. But the sensations themselves have the same energy to them.
Yes. This can be done with any emotions that you find. It is always just labels.

3. Can anything be found for which 'Alexa' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?
No in the bigger sense. There is a sense of responsibility for my kids, but that comes from the natural instinct of what I am, but it’s not something ‘Alexa’ chose to do.
I was tempted to ignore this. But let's go deeper. You can do it.

Even this "responsibility" is a label. I'm not saying it doesn't arise or that it shouldn't, but if it didn't someone would take care of the children. "Natural instinct" is also a label, isn't it?

And yes, it is not something someone called Alexa chose to do.

Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.

Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying


Loving!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Alexa
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Re: Clearing

Postby Alexa » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:04 pm

Hi there!
Even this "responsibility" is a label. I'm not saying it doesn't arise or that it shouldn't, but if it didn't someone would take care of the children. "Natural instinct" is also a label, isn't it?
Hmmm...so you’re saying that the ‘act’ of taking care of my kids is not an act at all, or responsibility, because what’s really happening is me as life interacting with life via direct experience? So all there is, is direct experience without labeling on actions as taking care of kids. So ‘responsibility’ is an added label of life flowing. And that the kids will be taken care of by life. I feel this understanding, but can’t put it into words!
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
I don’t know. Feeling sensations in hands and feet but that’s the only thing available that I can sense, so I don’t know how tall the body is.
Does the body have a weight or volume?
No. When noticing the sensations, those sensations are all I find. No weight or volume can be sensed.
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No. I can’t pin point this but when noticing the sensations, they appear from somewhere and another sensation comes up. I can’t find a shape or form in the sensations.
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
I can’t find a line between the skin and clothes. They seem to be one thing. When feeling sensation of clothes on the skin, I just find a sensation of the clothing on skin.
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No boundary. All I find are sensations and not a line between skin and chair.
Is there an inside or an outside?
There is no inside or outside, of what? The sensations are felt from clothes and chair. Sounds are heard in the same place too, but I don’t know the ‘place’. While sitting, I could hear my kids laughing, and although they were in a different room, the sound of their laughter was being heard ‘here’ in the same place where I could feel the sensations of clothing and chair.
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
Exactly! Inside of what, I don’t know how to answer this but I can’t find an inside.
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
I can’t find an outside or inside.
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?


The word ‘body’ is referring to sensations but there is nothing separate called ‘body’. The body is a bunch of sensations but there is nothing outside of those sensations called ‘body’. The chair I’m sitting on is a bunch of wood parts but if I take apart the legs and cushions, that’s all I would find. Little parts and wood. There is nothing standing out as ‘chair’.
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Actual experience is sensations. I also noticed this...even if I’m not sitting quietly for 15 minutes, throughout the day, I forget about my back or arms or my nose/ears. The concept of a ‘body’ or parts of a ‘body’ come into focus when there is a sensation like ‘cold’ temperature or an itch. I would have to be drawn in with a sensation to say ‘ohh, I have an itch on my face’. Without labeling where the sensation is coming from, there is just sensation from a location I would not know.

Best!

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Anastacia42
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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:25 pm

Hello!
Hmmm...so you’re saying that the ‘act’ of taking care of my kids is not an act at all, or responsibility, because what’s really happening is me as life interacting with life via direct experience? So all there is, is direct experience without labeling on actions as taking care of kids. So ‘responsibility’ is an added label of life flowing. And that the kids will be taken care of by life. I feel this understanding, but can’t put it into words!
You put it into words quite nicely. Yes.

All of your answers line up with direct experience. Great!

Just a question about these "little wood parts..."
The chair I’m sitting on is a bunch of wood parts but if I take apart the legs and cushions, that’s all I would find. Little parts and wood. There is nothing standing out as ‘chair’.
Certainly, nothing is "chair," but are not "little," "parts," and "wood" also labels? Do you find them in direct experience?



Deeper Body Investigation

Here is an even deeper (whatever that means) investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.

Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled 'body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?

Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?

Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?

Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?



Have fun!

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Alexa
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Re: Clearing

Postby Alexa » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:48 am

Morning!
Certainly, nothing is "chair," but are not "little," "parts," and "wood" also labels? Do you find them in direct experience?
No, I don’t find any of those descriptions in direct experience. Just thought labeling. It’s amazing noticing this!
Deeper Body Investigation
Can I ask for more time to do this exercise? I did it yesterday and I don’t feel satisfied with what I saw. There is a strong sense that I need to do the exercise again.

Thanks so much :-)

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Re: Clearing

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:10 pm

Good morning,

Absolutely! take your time. Ask questions if you have any.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris


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