Advice on depending liberation

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:43 am

“Chris” just seems to be the identifying with thoughts of past and future events. Stuff that doesn’t exist.

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:48 am

There’s a correction that needs to be made. Life situations don’t change the view. Interpreting certain events as MY life situations obscures the view.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:31 am

It’s seen that “Chris” is a patchwork character but at times life situations obscure the view. There appears to have never been a Chris. Just a fictitious identity made up and interchanged along the way.

Ok, reach in deeper, we can move past the head stuff.

As well as the idea of 'Chris', there is also a visceral experience, which you have come to associate with 'Chris'.
A real sense, that you recognised, and identify as, being 'Chris'.

This visceral sense that is so familiar is what we are terrified of losing, because it feels like who we are.

But we don't need to lose it, only see that it's not what we thought.
It's not 'Chris', not 'John', any more.

And that feels fucking sad to be honest.

But only because we got so hooked on it.

Have a mooch around with that, and see what you discover.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:28 pm

Ya that’s a big one. The emotional connection. It’s always felt like an anchor or heavy weight that I’ve just accepted as being there and somewhat turned away from. Other than an almost constant underlying tension or unease in the abdomen it’s difficult to pin down. Hard to look at. That’s where ‘Chris’ resides. Other than directly looking and the tension as a physical object in the body, giving it a mental image of form and movement I’m not sure how to approach this.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Hi Chris,

Ya that’s a big one. The emotional connection. It’s always felt like an anchor or heavy weight that I’ve just accepted as being there and somewhat turned away from. Other than an almost constant underlying tension or unease in the abdomen it’s difficult to pin down. Hard to look at. That’s where ‘Chris’ resides. Other than directly looking and the tension as a physical object in the body, giving it a mental image of form and movement I’m not sure how to approach this.

We just keep it simple and straightforward.

You know this everyday familiar feeling as you, as 'Chris', indivisible.

We can be clear about seeing that - yep, this is it, this is what we're talking about.

Then, having that clear and in our sights, we approach this regular perception of this-feeling-is-Chris-and-is-me as a perception, rather than as true.

Just do that. Play with that.

Share what occurs.

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:54 pm

Not sure if you’d like a specific reporting of experience as it’s registered? For instance, there’s the typing of letters, feeling of a rear end sitting on a chair, sounds of the metal heaters expanding, expansion and contraction of physical tensions etc.?

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:38 pm

Not sure if you’d like a specific reporting of experience as it’s registered? For instance, there’s the typing of letters, feeling of a rear end sitting on a chair, sounds of the metal heaters expanding, expansion and contraction of physical tensions etc.?


No, not required. Approach it with some amount of courage.
See if you are willing to accept the possibility that you are, bluntly, living a lie.
Not in the catholic sense.
But you will either continue to see this as true, or be willing to see it as a perception (which being generous, may or may not be true).
By this, is meant the idea that this familiar feeling is 'Chris', and this is who you are.

Keep it light, playful.

/john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:43 am

When there’s asking the question “am I living a lie?” Frustration and anger comes up but it’s just another thought/feeling the passes.
If I’m truly honest, there’s a sense that this needs to get sorted out. There’s a pent up energy that wants to be let out and that I need to do something to get this whole thing done but it feels like another stall tactic. All of this is very subtle and frustrating.
There’s something that wants to give up but that’s not an option after 12 years. Maybe the seeking wants to continue being a seeker?

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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:05 am

When there’s asking the question “am I living a lie?” Frustration and anger comes up but it’s just another thought/feeling the passes.
If I’m truly honest, there’s a sense that this needs to get sorted out. There’s a pent up energy that wants to be let out and that I need to do something to get this whole thing done but it feels like another stall tactic. All of this is very subtle and frustrating.
There’s something that wants to give up but that’s not an option after 12 years. Maybe the seeking wants to continue being a seeker?

Good to express that.

Ok, There's another issue here, which this kind of work has been seen as the solution for.
But it isn't.

What is it that needs sorting? Honestly.
What's really bugging you?
Why are you blocking yourself?
What are you afraid will happen? Or won't happen?

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:55 am

Reading that response and those questions hit hard and exposed something fragile. A bit of shock and shame came up

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:56 am

And a release of tension.

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:26 am

I see what you mean by it being sad. It’s sad to lose everything.

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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Hi Chris,
Reading that response and those questions hit hard and exposed something fragile. A bit of shock and shame came up

And a release of tension.

Great work Chris. Takes guts to see that. As for shame, I've yet to meet someone for whom shame wasn't a significant part of their emotional make-up. We don't need to know any content at all.

In feeling the shame, and recognising it, the trap is being ashamed for being ashamed. Or angry, sad, for being ashamed. Either way, we don't like it. :) It's a kind of old wound we've tried to hide from ourselves and others.

You've already taken the most important step in shifting the relationship and approach to shame. Of course we'd all prefer to walk the other way, but much better to turn around and walk towards it, to face it without any defence or desire to change it. You see, we want to humbly accept that shame has been part of our lives, just as it is part of many others.

In facing the shame, and feeling it, take a couple of minutes to breathe nice and deeply into it. Breathe in and breath out. You don't need to avoid it anymore.

One of the effects of shame generally is that we locked up our heart, because it hurt to leave it open. But shame is really an old gift. In breathing through it, we integrate it back into ourselves, and our heart opens again a little more.

I see what you mean by it being sad. It’s sad to lose everything.

It seems like losing everything, because we are so hooked on our identity as a real being. This is the matter at hand. But it's also not something to force, or even desire. It happens when it's ready, when you're ripe for it, the apple just falls.

With much love,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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ChrisGus
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby ChrisGus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:01 pm

It really lays it all bare allowing it...and of course there’s nothing behind it. The I trickery is so persistent. Seeing through it only seems to allow an opening for the deeply packed stuff to float up. Looking for an I and not finding one is only the beginning from this point of view. Woke up in the middle of the night, instantly wide awake but nothing there. Just sounds of the old creaking apartment.
As you said, it takes courage.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Advice on depending liberation

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:30 pm

Hey Chris,

It really lays it all bare allowing it...and of course there’s nothing behind it. The I trickery is so persistent. Seeing through it only seems to allow an opening for the deeply packed stuff to float up. Looking for an I and not finding one is only the beginning from this point of view. Woke up in the middle of the night, instantly wide awake but nothing there. Just sounds of the old creaking apartment.
As you said, it takes courage.

Sounds like you're doing some healthy processing while you sleep. All good.

Chris, let me offer a different approach to this, 'I trickery' business.

The convention is to approach this in terms of 'there is no self', 'No I' etc, etc.
Our reaction to that (often fear) is based upon our perception of what 'self' is, means, which can get a bit abstract and fuzzy.

Alternatively, we can focus on what we have a proper experience of, which is 'being Chris'. We don't need to go down the no-self route at all, we rather inquire into what 'being Chris' is about, what 'being Chris' is made up of, what we take 'Chris' to be.

So this is your mission - should you accept it - to challenge and inquire into the 'being Chris' phenomenon. :)

How does that sound?

john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/


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