Drawn to the gate

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Wildsprout
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:58 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:59 pm

Thank you, this is helpful and just letting go of that thought trying to figure out if this was the “right” way to experience opened up a lot. I can see that this is unfolding... will continue to watch what happens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Wildsprout
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:58 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:08 pm

Good morning Jadzia

Feeling more stable not after a couple of days to allow this to sink in on my own. There is no doubt here that the separate self is a mirage made of thoughts, this is absolutely clear. I was feeling confused because this belief is gone, it left a big hole because it wasn't replaced by anything else... thoughts have been flying around trying to get a handle what this means, so a lot of shifting in perspective and perception was happening. I see this is part of the story, and it is already unfolding.
The purpose of this part of the forum is to see that there is self/no self. That what we thought is a character which is the master of everything, the thinker, doer, chooser ect isn't like this at all.
The unfolding will go on, almost on its own. Still there is another part in this forum "Further Investigation" where one can go exploring. And there are facebook groups.
I can give you our questions for checking, which other guides will look at, too. Any of us can ask questions.
I would be interested to answer these questions, and move forward to the other part of the forum - very interested to continue to explore the implications of this...

Thank you <3

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1449
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:21 pm

Feeling more stable not after a couple of days to allow this to sink in on my own. There is no doubt here that the separate self is a mirage made of thoughts, this is absolutely clear. I was feeling confused because this belief is gone, it left a big hole because it wasn't replaced by anything else... thoughts have been flying around trying to get a handle what this means, so a lot of shifting in perspective and perception was happening. I see this is part of the story, and it is already unfolding.
Sounds good.
Keep in mind that life will simply go on, no special bliss, no good feelings only. Shifting the overview is destabilizing and it is meant to be - how else could the rest tumble? This doesn't only feel nice, it can be quite challenging at times. So whatever is simply is. ;-)

Here are the questions:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?


Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
Wildsprout
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:58 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:56 pm

Yes, I see that now... wasn't really expecting bliss, but did feel like I was supposed to feel somehow different. It's so interesting, I have been looking at all my spiritual books, etc... it's such a shift to know now what all this means about no separate self. It was so conceptual before, and was completely unaware how much I didn't 'get' it... amazing to be on the other side.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is not, and there never was, a separate entity that is "I". Not even as a 'lower' self, there is not even an ego, there is nothing that can take you over or fight for your attention... it is all just thoughts. Not only that, it is as thin and transparent as only this CURRENT thought. And then poof - it is gone again.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of the separate self is believing that the experience happening is happening to/through/by someone, a separate entity with a name, characteristics, and a past, rather than life just being/happening on it's own. It starts early in childhood and seems to be formulated based on the way people act and interact with one another (being treated as a separate entity with a name and character traits), by the nature of thought and language always having a subject/object orientation, and is compounded by 'feelings' of being in the body and separate from the rest of the world. As we grow up it is just an unquestioned assumption that we are all separate, individual, autonomous beings who are in control (or trying to be in control) of 'our' lives. Our thoughts seem to 'stick' and define us in innumerable ways, so that an identity is created which seems solid and real.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It was a little rocky at first seeing this... first a flood of emotions (laughing and crying), then a sense of tremendous relief, then confusion and disorientation trying to reassemble how to relate to experience. The past couple of days, things are in a way just the same, but there is an underlying understanding, the ability not to take thoughts so seriously, and seeing that any thought that is in opposition to what is happening right now is pointless suffering.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
It was a great progression of questions/exercises... first noticing the labels, then noticing the story being told and that thought was adding the "I" into every experience, then seeing how thought fills in the gaps in experience, and finally seeing that thoughts are just showing up - they are not chosen, they are happening alongside of experience, there is no choosing or directing and no control at all.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all thoughts, they are all illusory elements of the illusory separate self. Life makes things happen, life is constantly creating itself, dreaming up stories and playing them out within itself. What am I responsible for... on the level of reality, I am responsible for nothing... it is all happening on it's own, a program running based on conditioning, unfolding and shifting and changing continuously. Within the story though, thoughts continue to run about having choice and control - they run alongside/as a part of experience, rather than being the cause of anything. They are part of what makes experience so vivid, engaging, and real.
6) Anything to add?
Still getting used to all of the paradoxes, unable to say anything that is not in some way wrong, inadequate, or contradictory....
Also, it has been said many times but thank you Jadzia and LU for this incredible service. I know it's just here, it's just a part of life, but there is gratitude nonetheless <3

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1449
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:45 am

Beautiful answers.
they run alongside/as a part of experience, rather than being the cause of anything. They are part of what makes experience so vivid, engaging, and real.
No separation at all, so is thought running alongside experience or just experience?
They most certainly do all the commenting which can give the impression that they are an extra layer, don' t they?
As if they are something which would cover the real experience..... but them being it/this, can it be?

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
Wildsprout
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:58 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:34 pm

Yes... that was one of the paradoxes I was speaking of.... thought is a part of experience, everything is. Maybe better to say thought runs alongside the sense perceptions.... but it is all part of a seamless whole. Thoughts, sensations, perceptions all one experience. Sometimes the sense perceptions seem to be covered up somewhat by the story, sometimes the story seems to dissipate in favor of the sense perceptions. All is the flow of experiencing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1449
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:46 pm

Ok, I have no more questions now.
I will show your answers to other guides, one of them might have a question, lets see.
You will hear from me.

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1449
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Jadzia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:00 pm

Hi Wildsprout,

there are no more questions for you ....unless you explicitely ask for them. ;-)
Our path ends here for now.
It was wonderful guiding you and seeing that once you looked there was no way back.

You will get a pm, have a look next to your name on this page, from admin and one by me.

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
Wildsprout
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:58 pm

Re: Drawn to the gate

Postby Wildsprout » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:47 pm

Thank you for everything! <3


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest