Clear space

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Ecalpemos
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Re: Clear space

Postby Ecalpemos » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:51 am

Hi Ve

a quick update...

There were a couple of days of spacious, peaceful 'clarity', then thinking began to crowd in again. It feels like I wake up in a thicket of thoughts and have to fight my way through them to a clear space. But I'm always aware of the space now, though it can seem to be in the background, so I sit and bring focus to it so that it comes to the fore.

Petty grievances and stories from years ago, some from early childhood have popped up. I am observing these and questioning them as they arise and I can see the illusion of them. It's as though the space has loosened something and the old, dead stuff is floating to the top to be cleared away. I also see stories arising about what 'I'm' going to do when I'm awake; again I observe these and question them and they are seen as simply thoughts and stories in the mind. There can never be an awake 'me' - just an idea to get caught up in.

Things continue to unfold simply and without interference from 'me'. I will continue to flow with it and will keep in touch.

Love Ecalpemos

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:02 pm

Hi Ecalpemos

thank you for your update :-)
It feels like I wake up in a thicket of thoughts and have to fight my way through them to a clear space.
Why fighting?
Just relax and go with the rhythm of life .... more space ... than again more daily stuff and "living the illusion" .... than again space ...... thats normal! Nothing to achieve, to maintain, ..... just watch and live the show!

this someone who wants things different, who is it? what is it?
its all part of the show!

and it is also normal that old things pop up. They just want to be welcome, seen and felt.....
you are doing very good!

Love Ve

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Ecalpemos
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Re: Clear space

Postby Ecalpemos » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:13 pm

Hi Ve

Here's an update...

I've been sick again, this is the 3rd time in a month, which is very unusual for me. Today I was taken ill when out walking, it was interesting as I experienced it but it wasn't happening 'to me' in the way it would have once been believed. There was no resistance to it, no 'one' who wanted it to be gone / different. It seems like I've had a series of physical purgings (vomiting and diarrhoea) for no obvious reason. The night i had my first 'waking up' experience I was sick for no reason. It seems to be part of the process for me. My body feels light and free. I used to feel like I held old stuff in my body, but now all that has gone. Just a body here doing its thing, arising in awareness, being experienced - pain and pleasure. Physical life is just extraordinary.

Something arose for me about consciousness. I can see that it is what's here, what's experiencing everything. But every living thing (including rocks etc) has a level of consciousness, a level of natural 'intelligence'. It dawned on me that there aren't lots of different consciousnesses - how could that possibly work? So there can only be one. i've read that there's one great consciousness manifesting in many different ways, including 'me'. I'm beginning to get close to 'seeing' this as an experience. But again the mind tries to 'understand' it and it's beyond the mind, can you help me explore this please?


Love Ecalpemos

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:47 pm

Hi Ecalpemos

yes, sometimes the body cleans and that is not always pleasant but we can only let it happen.
But again the mind tries to 'understand' it and it's beyond the mind, can you help me explore this please?
yes it is beyond mind. so how could I help? You are doing very good. truth shows itself at its own pace.
Its right, there is only one consciousness.

What is the difference between awareness and experience?
Is there a difference?
Looking in actual experince is again and aigain the key. Otherwise the mind starts again to build stories on top of some seeing.
And at the end of the game we can see that we realy don't know much for sure ... if there is anything we can know for sure.
How does it feel to be with this not knowing?

Love Ve

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Ecalpemos
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Re: Clear space

Postby Ecalpemos » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 pm

Thanks Ve
What is the difference between awareness and experience?
Is there a difference?
A. They are the same thing, there's no difference. Experience is simply things arising in awareness.

I don't feel that there is anything that I can know for sure, other than I am, here and now. Things are arising around me all the time and they seem real enough, but they are constantly shifting and changing. I am ok with not knowing, it feels like there's no choice in the matter and I am coming to a place of surrender more and more each day. Trying to change or oppose anything seems utterly pointless, just going with flow and staying as present as possible.

I don't know if it's appropriate to share this here, but some friends of mine just came back from a retreat with a famous author (Joe Dispenza) who works on energy stuff and maximising human potential - I don't really understand what it's about. They were full of excitement, said it had changed their lives, bursting with heart energy and love, manifesting amazing futures etc. I listen to it all and a part of me wishes I was in it with them, feeling all that excitement and love, being part of something. I am over here on my own, dismantling myself each day, gradually disappearing. I have no desire to manifest anything, I don't feel great divine love, I feel cut off from most people as I can't talk about the waking up stuff with them. I know that there's no turning back, and there's no hope - hope is just more wishing for things to be different. I can't stick the genie back in the bottle.

I guess I'm looking for comfort and reassurance, but there really isn't any. Who is it that needs comfort and reassurance anyway? And yet it's a relief to write it down and send it to someone, like a message in a bottle :-)

Love Ecalpemos

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:08 pm

Hi Ecalpemos
I guess I'm looking for comfort and reassurance, but there really isn't any. Who is it that needs comfort and reassurance anyway?
Yes there is no one .... but it can be that fear or uncertainty comes up and if it is like this it is important don't push the feelings away with thought like "there isn't any".

it's also normal to have a period of retreat and having no desire to manifest anything ... often it changes after a while and life unfolds more active again. Just go with the flow.

What do you think about the final 6 questions?
A good time to try them?
Its a good opportunity to reflect different aspects of the illusion ....

Love Ve

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Ecalpemos
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Re: Clear space

Postby Ecalpemos » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:42 pm

Hi Ve

Yes, let's try the final questions again. I may take a few days over them.

Love Ecalpemos

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:31 pm

Wonderful!
Look back to Page 5, I already gave them to you
Love ve

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Ecalpemos
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Re: Clear space

Postby Ecalpemos » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:59 am

Hi Ve

I'm still in process with it all... there's a confusion about the idea of a 'separate self' as it's clear that I can't take myself out of everything else and that nothing can really be 'separate' from anything else, but there's still a belief of my being a different person and separate body from other people.

I've just been flowing with it, focusing on awareness and there are shifts daily. But I've not shifted into a clear seeing and knowing. I'm not anxious about it, life is unfolding, so much has and continues to fall away.

Love Ecalpemos

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:34 pm

Hi Ecalpemos,

still confused?
there's a confusion about the idea of a 'separate self' as it's clear that I can't take myself out of everything else and that nothing can really be 'separate' from anything else,
this is all thought. It wouldn't help. Looking helps.
Is there a "myself" that could be taken out of everything else?
By looking you can see again and again
- there is no I, me, myself ... so the question if it could be taken out or not is irrelevant!
- any seperation or border can't be found by looking. Looking means actual experience here and now instead of thinking, concluding, .......
do you see the difference?
but there's still a belief of my being a different person and separate body from other people.
you can see that this is a belief? a thought?
thats all.
It will dissapear or not.
who cares?
who wants to be ride of this sticky belief?
isn't it another thought?

Love Ve

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Ecalpemos
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Re: Clear space

Postby Ecalpemos » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:20 am

Hi Ve

thanks for your reply...
- there is no I
A. But there is an I. When I look that's what is clear. I Am. I know that the concept of the person is an illusion, there is no myself, that has been clearly seen through, but there is life / experiencing / awareness here, clear as day. There is a sense of I am with it.

When I look I still see 'other bodies'. They are not all the same body. I know that I'm not my body, but it's part of my experiencing here as a human. Perhaps this is ok, I'm not getting hung up on it as I think it's a bit of a mental dead end, which doesn't help. There may be many chairs in the room, they are all chairs, but not the same chair. It is the same for human bodies.

You are right that this is all just more thoughts.

The space is there, the underlying silence. I am focusing on being here now.

I value your input and will keep looking at direct experience.

Love Ecalpemos

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:35 am

Hi Ecalpemos,
A. But there is an I. When I look that's what is clear. I Am. I know that the concept of the person is an illusion, there is no myself, that has been clearly seen through, but there is life / experiencing / awareness here, clear as day. There is a sense of I am with it.
Yes thats right. There is this sens of beeing, beeing alive, presence, awareness.
When we use this famous term "I Am" it needs to be clear that there is no seperate self, I, me, inside.
So this "I Am" is more an "I Am" than a "I Am" ....
This "I" in the "I Am" can't be found as a subject, a seperate entity, it only can be found this sense of beeing.

What is the difference between awareness and experience?
Is there any?
(Look, dont think :-)
When I look I still see 'other bodies'
You are right that this is all just more thoughts.
yes,seeing... colour, form, shape .... "other bodies" needs thought to produce this idea.
"Other bodies" need a subject I/me that referres to "other".
Can this subject be found in direct experience or does it need thought to "create" it?

Can any thought be known as realy true?
What is known for sure and what is part of the illusion?
We can see that there is not much what we know for sure.

Looking forward to your next report!
Love Ve

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:46 am

correct:
So this "I Am" is more an "I Am" than an "I Am" ....

... was wrong marked above, sorry ....

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Ecalpemos
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Re: Clear space

Postby Ecalpemos » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:42 am

Hi Ve

thanks for your clarification... language can be tricky!
This "I" in the "I Am" can't be found as a subject, a seperate entity, it only can be found this sense of beeing.

Yes, there has been a clear experiencing of this. My mind has crowded back in and the focus has gone back onto the mind and the 'self' for some of the time, but the I AM is sensed as what lies 'beyond' thoughts and experiences and the idea of a separate entity.
What is the difference between awareness and experience?

A. There is no difference. Experience is what awareness 'does' with objects arising within it. Experience is the 'doing' of awareness, if that makes sense! They are elements of the same thing.


"other bodies" needs thought to produce this idea.
"Other bodies" need a subject I/me that referres to "other".
Can this subject be found in direct experience or does it need thought to "create" it?

A. Yes! I realise that the word and sense of 'other' implies a separation, another thing apart from 'me'. This is simply a thought. In reality things are arising that's it. It is a thought that imagines me here and that out there. There cannot possibly be any 'other' it's just an idea. When I look in direct experience this is clear, but in daily life I'm still in the old patterns for much of the time, though this is slowly shifting.

Can any thought be known as realy true?
What is known for sure and what is part of the illusion?

A. No thought can be known as really true. Thoughts are just thoughts, they are not truths. There is no truth or untruth, just reality and what is unfolding here and now. Reality has nothing to do with thoughts.
I see clearer and clearer now that there is reality unfolding and there are thoughts - and these thoughts are usually nothing do with what's actually arising, just a stream of blah blah. My practise is bringing attention to what's actually arising and allowing the thoughts to do their thing in the background.

The only thing that is known for sure is that I Am here and now. things arise and there's an awareness and experiencing of them, what arises is constantly changing. All the stories and thoughts and judgments around what arises are part of the illusion, including beliefs and feelings around 'me' the person.

I see this in direct experience, but there is still some playing out / falling away to happen before there's a clear and abiding 'knowing' of this.

Every day things seem to subtly but profoundly shift and fall away. This morning I read a post on facebook about things not being 'perfect', and the whole idea of perfect or imperfect seemed ridiculous to me. Just judgments in the mind, with nothing more than that to the idea. How can anything be perfect or imperfect? Things simply are as they are, it is only thoughts that suggest that they should be other than they are. Things cannot possibly other than they are.


Love Ecalpemos

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Verananda
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Re: Clear space

Postby Verananda » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:04 pm

Hi Ecalpemos,
When I look in direct experience this is clear, but in daily life I'm still in the old patterns for much of the time, though this is slowly shifting.
I see this in direct experience, but there is still some playing out / falling away to happen before there's a clear and abiding 'knowing' of this.
Thats all normal, a shift is going on and .... never ends?
It is a continuous process of unfolding ....
We are not a monk, living in retreat with time to meditate the whole day ...
Its normal "to slip into the illusion" like watching a very exciting movie: While watching we forget that we sit in the livingroom in a comfort and save chair. We cry and shiver with the protagonist hoping for a happy end. After the movie it is clear again ... just a movie. If you would be aware of "I am just watching a movie - I am just watching a movie -I am just watching a movie-I am just watching a movie...." would it be fun?
I see clearer and clearer now that there is reality unfolding and there are thoughts - and these thoughts are usually nothing do with what's actually arising, just a stream of blah blah.
:-)


what you write sounds very clear ....

I would suggest you try the 6 final questions ...
why postpone further?

the process will go on
and if questions occure you can adress them to me or in the further investigation section of LU ....

Love Ve


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