I don't know anything absolutely.

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Ilona
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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:18 pm

There maybe a few definitions of word reality. One is that real is that which does not disappear once you stop imagining it. Like a real apple in the hand and imagined Apple. So this show of experience right here right now includes all that is actually happening. Sounds, colours, sensations, emotions, thinking.. all is included.
Other definition of real is that which IS. And if you connect what this concept points to to the sense of being... that - where all words fall away, it’s experienced as stillness, formless space of being, aliveness, Consciousness, life, presence, god - so many words point to the same.

How can you experience reality? A conceptual I can’t experience anything. It’s a concept. It’s something that arises as idea.
The reality is. See that you already see that. You are present. That’s reality.

Life is experiencing itself through a human journey. It’s subtle, but see how this sounds when you say as a human journey. Human journey is a form that life manifests as. There is nothing that is not a form of life. No human to which life is happening to.

Are you the creator of human journey?
What feels true?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Fallawake1
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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Fallawake1 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:35 am

Yesterday was a very difficult day after that very short night. Did shaking and it finished with crying. Was feeling quite desperate and in a storm of self hatred thought patterns. Mostly past after the crying but was still moody. Today, feeling better. Slept well.

When I say, as a human journey. It sounds there’s a separation between life and the human journey. But in my experience, there’s none.

It feels that I’m the creator of my human journey. But it’s a creation at every moments and there’s no knowing at least in the form of thoughts of what it’s going to be. A trip in the unknown. Making it as it goes.
Have the feeling that if one is closer to the heart the path is seen more clearly.

Seeing that I, the concept cannot experience reality. It is part of the experience. It is sometimes part of the present as a concept. Seeing that reality is. The feeling is more clear when there’s no thought. The good old Am I conscious? Question came to my mind. No answer. Just being.

Again, had the realization that thoughts about reality can’t embrace reality. Don’t have to believe those thoughts.
Feeling the heart area.

Love

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:04 pm

Beautiful, now I can see that you get this. Life is. Being is. And it shows as all the forms, we give names to the forms and do not see the substance.
It’s like you have a pot of clay, and you see a pot, when it’s clay. And there is no pot if there is no clay. Pot is a name of a form. Clay is the substance. Clay can be in different shapes, like a cup or a plate or an ornament, etc. Same is aliveness, consciousness a substance, and all the forms that it takes are it. So where is a room for i the creator? Or I, the created is a name of a form?

In other words are you the author of your life?
Are you co-author of life?
Are you what life shows up as?

And if you are the creator, is it by your own wish to create suffering?

Write what feels true.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Fallawake1 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:17 pm

There’s no room for a creator. The thought: the creator is the creation. It feels like there’s the need for an expression that’s impossible to grasp in a form of a loophole to express that.

In other words are you the author of your life?
The author gives the idea of a story. The story happens in the mind. It is a manifestation of Life like everything.

Are you co-author of life?
The thoughts:
The human journey is the form that is taken by the formless. The Reality of the human journey is Life
Are you what life shows up as? Yes

Do I create suffering? Is there suffering? In my experience there still seems to be suffering sometimes. Suffering seems to point to where there’s still a belief in separation.
Example: yesterday my girlfriend and I had some visit from my brother and his wife. My girlfriend was really excited when they were there and the way she acted made that thought emerged : “Look how that seems fake”. Then there was thoughts along the line of : I shouldn’t have those thoughts, etc, etc. It’s like if those thoughts wouldn’t let that initial thought be as it was. In some way they were the beliefs in separation between me and the initial thought. But there’s no separation. I guess it’s also pointing to every time I‘m fake myself. I also shared with her so it’s a communication opportunity and of course she was genuinely excited and happy.

But since there’s no separation, is there real suffering (psychological) or is it only imagined? Is it only the idea of a separate self that is the imagined suffering? It seems like there’s a choice to suffer. For me, there’s that old idea that I need to suffer to evolve.
Feeling of gratitude. Feeling compassion.
Love

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:58 pm

Lovely response, thank you.
Nice to notice that suffering is pointing to an idea about separateness. That way is no longer something negative, but an oportunity, an invitation to explore.

You say that for you suffering is prerequisite to growth. Let’s agree with that for a minute. You need to grow and that must be painful. You have to feel extreme nemotions and only then you can grow. Where does this belief come from? Who gave it to you? Do you remember the first time you felt that this was true? Was it your mum, your dad or someone else that thought you that?
Explore this.

Is growing something you do by effort or it happens?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Fallawake1 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:51 am

The oldest memory I can remember for now is 12 years ago, I was 24, and my dad, after having seen my first dance solo, told me that I had often choose suffering. I had coreographed my own solo and it was about transformation. It was accompanied by a text that was pointing to suffering as a way of transformation. I remember then, that it was already an idea I had, of course, I had written that text. Can’t pinpoint when that was first felt. However, I can remember what I think was the first time I suffered from what the mind was telling. I was 12 or 13 and I did a bit of insomnia. I remember thinking about dying and wondering who would care. I thought about becoming a monk to retire from all this. I was sad. Here and there, pockets of sadness in a relatively happy childhood and teenagehood.
I also was always fond of Jesus. Maybe my catholic upbringing as also something to do with that belief in suffering as a way of growth. Also, remembering my first “broken heart”. I was 7. We moved in a different village and without us having said anything, my girlfriend and I broke up. Remember being sad in the car and understanding that it was life. Things (relationships) ends.
Maybe it’s lived experiences and upbringing that brought this idea.
Not sure.

What is growth?
The thought:
Growth is evolution, change.
There’s nothing to do to change. Forms change constantly. Never the same. Thoughts, feelings, perceptions, sensations. They all evolve automatically.
The thought: To grow, needing to experience new things. But everything is always new.
Have I grown?
Physically, certainly.
Emotionally, still feeling like a child.

Love

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:39 pm

Thank you very much for sharing and looking at the experiences that were confirming the need for suffering.
Here is a new question for you. What are these thoughts and emotions (suffering) if you don’t name them that?
It’s quick to label this good or bad, wanted unwanted. We look for pleasure and avoid pain. And all spectrum of various emotions are included in the experience of life.
What is here without naming?
And what is there that is suffering? What does suffering stick to?
Is there a feeler of sensations?
And is the voice in the head that talks about how bad sensation are, the feeler?

Look closer and describe what you notice.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Fallawake1 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:41 pm

What are these thoughts and emotions (suffering) if you don’t name them that?

In my experience, the thoughts are self hatred thoughts, also thoughts about the uncertainty of future. Thoughts about politic and economy (what’s going on in the world!) Thoughts about how the other(my girlfriend or a friend) seems to suffer. Also thoughts about how I shouldn’t have those thoughts (fantasizing about other women, judgments about people, violent thoughts, mean thoughts).

In my experience, emotions that are related to suffering are: irritation, anger, sadness, anxiety, stress, impatience, grief, powerlessness.

It’s quick to label this good or bad, wanted unwanted. We look for pleasure and avoid pain. And all spectrum of various emotions are included in the experience of life.
What is here without naming?

It’s sensations and in my experience the thoughts are omnipresent in those situations.

And what is there that is suffering?
Nothing more then in seeing or touching. There’s only an idea that there is a sufferer.

What does suffering stick to?
It seems to sticks to the belief in separation.
If irritation toward my girlfriend is refused, rejected, considered as not me, suffering will stick to that rejection. It’s an opportunity to look at that irritation, see what it says.
Last time it was showing me how sometimes I ‘m fake too. It was showing my belief that we shouldn’t hide our emotions (only a belief). More deeply, it was showing me rancir that is there with my girlfriend. We have been together for 9 1/2 years so there’s many stories and some wounds. I can now really see the little boy that is angry in my reaction toward her.

Is there a feeler of sensations?
No, there’s only sensing.

And is the voice in the head that talks about how bad sensation are, the feeler?
No, that voice just repeat what was learned. Moreover, in my case, there was for a very long time that identification to the good/patient guy. So sensing what is commonly considered bad is even “more bad”. But is there such a thing as a bad sensation? No. Why is that voice so present when those feelings arise? I have the impression, that amongst other things it’s trying to protect that identification.

Much love

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:43 pm

Well yes, nicely said, there is identification that is being protected. Like what are you without the idea that you are good?
What do you get from being good? What is the payoff?
What feelings are there when you see yourself as good?

Is there true identity?
And what is that needs to be protected? Does having an identity give security?

Does idea about being separate self give security?

Explore this and write soon
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Fallawake1 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:45 am

Like what are you without the idea that you are good?

Free.


What do you get from being good? What is the payoff?

I receive compliments. It used to reinforce that story. Most people are nice with me. Consequently, most of my relation with people are relatively harmonious. Fear of conflict. Conflict brings sensations in the body that are ‘’uncomfortable’’.

Having the impression that it started as a way to navigate into the world to get love from the others and to avoid conflict. We were also taught to be nice.


What feelings are there when you see yourself as good?

I remember feeling light headed. That feels good. But within the last few years it did change a bit and I also some time get the thought: I’m not only nice. It then brings an inner conflict, mostly in the form of conflicting thoughts.

So there’s the feeling of being a bit of a hypocrite.

It’s like if for a long time there was that wanting to only show a nice character, always lovable. However, I know that there is also, envy, jealousy, greed, pride, anger, concupiscence, selfishness, laziness, etc. It’s all part of the human experience (at least mine). Up until quite recently, there was that belief that all those feelings were bad. It’s very Christian.

Woke up last night in the middle of the night and the thought came: Why do I always want everyone to love me?

Having the impression that it’s indicating a false script about myself : The Unlovable self. Having the impression that all those ‘’feelings’’ that are felt are what’s believed to be Unlovable.


Is there true identity?

No it’s not a true identity. It’s just a story. There’s no true identity. Good, bad, hypocrite, all stories.


And what is that needs to be protected? Does having an identity give security?

There is nothing that needs to be protected.

Having an identity doesn’t give any security. An identity is just a story.

Does idea about being a separate self gives security?

No.

Much Love

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:27 pm

Thank you for exploring this.
The good guy, that everyone loves is an image. And it seems that an image needs to be loved. But the love is not in the image.
Now check this, what is the worst that can happen to an image? Imagine yourself and explore, what can happen to that image?
Also, can you see that people have a different image of you depending on their experience? And can you notice all those thoughts about other people’s thoughts of you are your thoughts about thoughts? There is evaluating and judging going on in your head.

And what is here without a story, without “my story”?
What is that owns the character?
Does batman own the character?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Fallawake1 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:56 pm

Now check this, what is the worst that can happen to an image?
Imagine yourself and explore, what can happen to that image?
The thought: It can dissolve.
The thought: It can change.

Also, can you see that people have a different image of you depending on their experience?
Yes totally.
Of course it’s a bit of an assumption and I didn’t ask how she perceived me but the other day, there was an unhappy customer at my work and I’m the one at the reception. Let’s just say that she made me feel “bad”.

And can you notice all those thoughts about other people’s thoughts of you are your thoughts about thoughts?
Yes, and having the impression that I can’t know what other people think, at least without asking. Therefore, those thoughts about thoughts are seen as unessessary (in most cases).

The other night a question emerged: Does everyone that I think about spend as much time thinking about me as I spend thinking about them?
The answer that came was: Probably not.

There is evaluating and judging going on in your head.
Yes, they have been there for a very long time. They are at best a very narrow point of view of Reality. Or else, they can simply be fantasy.

And what is here without a story, without “my story”?
Freedom. The present moment. However, remembering a few months ago, the following thought emerged: I only have stories. It was accompanied with quite the emotion. It was sadness.
The thought: Another story.
The thought: if there’s no story there is just Reality.

What is that owns the character?
The thought:Nothing, the character is another manifestation of life.
The thought: life is it’s essence.
Does batman own the character?
The thought: no, we can say that Bruce Wayne is the essence of Batman. No Bruce Wayne= No Batman.

Love

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:22 pm

Thank you kindly for reply
The other night a question emerged: Does everyone that I think about spend as much time thinking about me as I spend thinking about them?
The answer that came was: Probably not.
Sure they do, all they think is about you :)
And what does it matter? I like what Byron Katie says: what you think of me is none of my business.
And yes, it is freedom here without story. Story can be here or not, that does not change the fact of being.

Funny about the Bruce Wayne being the essence of batman. Because Bruce is equaly fictional character. The essence of batman is fiction.

Now look at character fallawake and see what is the essence here? How is this character different from batman?
What is that has stories, what is that owns them? Can you pinpoint to the owner, creator?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Fallawake1 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:51 pm

Now look at character fallawake and see what is the essence here?
The essence is Life.
How is this character different from batman?
No different.
What is that has stories, what is that owns them?
Life. Life owns everything. Batman included.
Can you pinpoint to the owner, creator?
Cannot pinpoint to it . It’s not a thing.
The thoughts:
Life feeling Life
Life perceiving Life
Life sensing Life
Life thinking Life

Love

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Re: I don't know anything absolutely.

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:05 pm

Sweet :)
Are there any burning questions left?
Is there anything that still does not want to go to rest?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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