at the gate

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Phil
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at the gate

Postby Phil » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:58 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is a concept, a word, a thought that does not exists in 'reality'. I hear the doorbell ringing. Hearing is happening, ringing is happening. I can see the door and the bell. The only thing in de sentence that has no counterpart in reality is the 'I'. Can't be found, doesn't leave a trace, for now obvious reasons.

What are you looking for at LU?
Pretty convinced I crashed the Gate when coming accross you guys and dolls and reading the Gateless Gatecrashers. I will never be able to express enough gratitude for that gift and here my humble attempt: thank you so very much!! Still I would love to have a guide even it if was just to check.
I also would like access to the archives because I love reading about it. I bought the LU-book. Want to be in contact with others with whom I can talk about this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Deeper insight into my present state. Confirmation of where I am. I could also use some guiding advice in the new environment I find myself in. I guess I can work it out on my own and feel that help would be faster and make the process more enjoyable.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Transcendental Meditation practitioner, NLP-Master, A Course in Miracles teacher and Jed McKenna fan.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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MichaelD
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Re: at the gate

Postby MichaelD » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:16 pm

Hi Phil,

Yes, I will be happy to assist you in exploring the illusion of the ‘separate self’, or if it emerges that this has been done then helping you confirm that.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Just let me know that you have read the disclaimer, the FAQ's and then we can get underway.

Thanks,

Michael

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Phil
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Re: at the gate

Postby Phil » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:57 pm

Hello Michael,


thank you for your swift reply. I have read the disclaimer and the FAQ. However the link for the quote function does not work. I guess it means repeating the question in italic that I am addressing?

Looking forward to getting started!

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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MichaelD
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Re: at the gate

Postby MichaelD » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:56 pm

Hi Phil,

Thanks.

If I understand you correctly you feel / think that you have Gated already :)

In which case we could start with the confirmation questions and see yow you get on. If you have Gated it will be pretty evident and if you haven't the areas we need to explore will be highlighted for us.

Does that makes sense as a way forward? As a strategy it is 'jump in at the deep end and see what happens'!

The alternative is to just start at the beginning and take it from there.

So; are you feeling brave?

Michael

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Phil
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Re: at the gate

Postby Phil » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:40 pm

Hello Michael,


feeling brave and ready to jump in at the deep end.

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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MichaelD
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Re: at the gate

Postby MichaelD » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:51 pm

Hi Phil,

Excellent!

LU has a set of questions that help to give a summing up of what you have seen and might help clear up any remaining confusion.

Please have a go at answering them

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please take your time and answer as fully as possible, that really helps. You can answer them any way that suits you, one at a time, in pairs, or all at once, whatever is best for you.

Enjoy the process,

Michael.

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Phil
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Re: at the gate

Postby Phil » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:43 pm

Hello Michael,

Thank you for you message and the homework. Here my answers:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, it can not be perceived when looked for and it does not leave a trace. There never was. It is a thought, a concept to facilitate communication that we learn as a child when we learn a language. We are programmed to identify the body and the sense of being aware with the words self, me and I and we do so without questioning it.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It is the illusion that ‘self’ is not just a word or concept. Self is as real as the sun or a tree. It is an object of reality. It starts by learning the word and concept. Then, through conditioning and feedback loops by parents, teachers, peers this illusion is reinforced and confirmed over and over again. Soon everything the mind peceives is labeled and seen from and in relation to the self: this is my toy, I am not you, I want to go home, I am angry…
When thinking about it now, in regard to the question I am answering, I see it mostly as The Story of Me I keep telling myself all day long. Of how I became who I am, a combination of fysical qualities and external influences and experiences. Everything I experience of perceive is seen through the lens of the Story of Me. It’s a bit like a movie with a voice-over. This story is not a very happy story, there is a lot of pain and injustice and victimization and fear.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I was blown away by my first realization. I felt it fysically, it was overwhelming. One time, walking I felt like I was transparent and the world around me too. Another time I was driving a car and suddenly realized that there was no driver. This resulted in a minor panic attack. All of a sudden it felt like I had forgotten how to drive a car. Everything felt and looks and sounds different and yet everything is the same. Sometimes the realization just makes laugh out loud.
The most important and very welcomed change: the frantic chatter in my head has slowed down significantly. I don’t worry as much as before. I am in a very uncertain period workwise and this causes a lot of stress an anxiety. Since I think I crashed the gate I can enjoy doing nothing and just sit and look around and be amazed. It occupies my mind constantly since it happened about 3 or 4 weeks ago. I wake up with the idea and I take it to bed.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

it was the first story of Gateless Gatecrashers: the story of Philip. First the Santa methaphore is very helpful for me. I remember this experience very vividly from my own childhood. How confused I was, ashamed and angry. And how, looking back I got this ‘but ofcourse’ feeling, the pieces of the puzzle finally fit, things made more sense. The last straw that broke the camel’s back was this paragraphe: “So now look at the real possibility that there is no “you” in real life. That all is happening by itself, without a manager. Look inside and tell me what feeling comes up; do you recognise fear, resistance, frustration, what is it? "
It was the first time I was introduced to this sentence and it worked like spell, like a computer virus. I felt something shift internally accompanied by feelings of joy and relief.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no manager! This is such a relief and support. It is like and escape button, in-case-of-emergency-break-glass thing. Whenever it get’s hot and I get frustrated and pulled back into The Story of Me, I pull this card: there is no manager. It is all just happening by itself, a river of unfolding moments witnessed by no-one.

Since I, me, the self does not exist (I can not find him anywhere), there is no doer. Only ‘things happening’. There is no decision maker because there is no-one to make decisions. It looks like it. I seems that we have intentions and make plans for the future. And it looks as if what we live is a consequence of our actions, it is very convincing. But is is not true. And this is so baffling to really grasp. Just sitting, looking hearing feeling what is happening and knowing that it is not me. That I have no clue what is going to happen next. Also that I am not responsible for it, that is so freeing!

Often the loss of control can be frighting. Like when it hits you while driving on the highway. Most of the time is a big comfort. My brian has automatically and effortlessly stops worrying as much as it used to.

6) Anything to add?

I feel very humbled and am overexcited that this is happening to me.

The peace of mind is such a joy. I also notice that my meditations are a lot better. My mind is so much more quite.

I feel like I am vacillating between two worlds or paradigms. It can be very confusing and disorientating. Sometimes I don’t know what to do with myself. I feel the old programms have become obsolete but are still running, or that’s what it feels like. I can imagine this being just the beginning and that now there is a lot of work to be done. The de-programming. Looking at fears, and want and shouldn’ts and finding out the feelings and fears that they are protecting. Kind of like doing workbook lessons in A Course in Miracles.

I seem to shift back to the old me-paradigm when the going gets though, when the I gets threatened like is now the case with my job and livelyhood. I can get very nervous and then I do not know what to do with myself. I can not read or meditate. Best thing to do if possible is going for long walks. My second favorite meditation technique.

It sometimes feels that the I, me, self is sensing what is going on and it can feel it’s coming demise. In reaction if fights for dear life and sends me these attack thoughts like: “what are you doing? Throw away that book. It is dangerous and it will make you go mad. This is all just nonsense.

Talk soon,

Phil
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
_______________________________________________
https://www.facebook.com/odonataconsulting/

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MichaelD
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Re: at the gate

Postby MichaelD » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:26 pm

Hi Phil,

Well done. That was quick!!
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, it can not be perceived when looked for and it does not leave a trace. There never was. It is a thought, a concept to facilitate communication that we learn as a child when we learn a language. We are programmed to identify the body and the sense of being aware with the words self, me and I and we do so without questioning it.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It is the illusion that ‘self’ is not just a word or concept. Self is as real as the sun or a tree. It is an object of reality. It starts by learning the word and concept. Then, through conditioning and feedback loops by parents, teachers, peers this illusion is reinforced and confirmed over and over again. Soon everything the mind peceives is labeled and seen from and in relation to the self: this is my toy, I am not you, I want to go home, I am angry…
When thinking about it now, in regard to the question I am answering, I see it mostly as The Story of Me I keep telling myself all day long. Of how I became who I am, a combination of fysical qualities and external influences and experiences. Everything I experience of perceive is seen through the lens of the Story of Me. It’s a bit like a movie with a voice-over. This story is not a very happy story, there is a lot of pain and injustice and victimization and fear.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I was blown away by my first realization. I felt it fysically, it was overwhelming. One time, walking I felt like I was transparent and the world around me too. Another time I was driving a car and suddenly realized that there was no driver. This resulted in a minor panic attack. All of a sudden it felt like I had forgotten how to drive a car. Everything felt and looks and sounds different and yet everything is the same. Sometimes the realization just makes laugh out loud.
The most important and very welcomed change: the frantic chatter in my head has slowed down significantly. I don’t worry as much as before. I am in a very uncertain period workwise and this causes a lot of stress an anxiety. Since I think I crashed the gate I can enjoy doing nothing and just sit and look around and be amazed. It occupies my mind constantly since it happened about 3 or 4 weeks ago. I wake up with the idea and I take it to bed.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
it was the first story of Gateless Gatecrashers: the story of Philip. First the Santa methaphore is very helpful for me. I remember this experience very vividly from my own childhood. How confused I was, ashamed and angry. And how, looking back I got this ‘but ofcourse’ feeling, the pieces of the puzzle finally fit, things made more sense. The last straw that broke the camel’s back was this paragraphe: “So now look at the real possibility that there is no “you” in real life. That all is happening by itself, without a manager. Look inside and tell me what feeling comes up; do you recognise fear, resistance, frustration, what is it? "
It was the first time I was introduced to this sentence and it worked like spell, like a computer virus. I felt something shift internally accompanied by feelings of joy and relief.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
There is no manager! This is such a relief and support. It is like and escape button, in-case-of-emergency-break-glass thing. Whenever it get’s hot and I get frustrated and pulled back into The Story of Me, I pull this card: there is no manager. It is all just happening by itself, a river of unfolding moments witnessed by no-one.

Since I, me, the self does not exist (I can not find him anywhere), there is no doer. Only ‘things happening’. There is no decision maker because there is no-one to make decisions. It looks like it. I seems that we have intentions and make plans for the future. And it looks as if what we live is a consequence of our actions, it is very convincing. But is is not true. And this is so baffling to really grasp. Just sitting, looking hearing feeling what is happening and knowing that it is not me. That I have no clue what is going to happen next. Also that I am not responsible for it, that is so freeing!

Often the loss of control can be frighting. Like when it hits you while driving on the highway. Most of the time is a big comfort. My brian has automatically and effortlessly stops worrying as much as it used to.
6) Anything to add?
I feel very humbled and am overexcited that this is happening to me.

The peace of mind is such a joy. I also notice that my meditations are a lot better. My mind is so much more quiet.

Fantastic!! This all reads very well to me and like you I noticed, and was relieved by, the drop in anxiety. The peace and quietness is also to be welcomed.

You then go on to state;
I feel like I am vacillating between two worlds or paradigms. It can be very confusing and disorientating. Sometimes I don’t know what to do with myself. I feel the old programms have become obsolete but are still running, or that’s what it feels like.
Old programms being obsolete but still running is a very useful way of looking at what is happening. In these circumstances the most useful thing to do is just look.

You can also ask questions like - Are these thoughts true? What is the underpinning belief here? etc.

It is important to realise that you are unlikely to remain in some perfect non-dual state but are very likely to get drawn into story lines / dramas particularly in areas where you have strong habits or are 'held' in certain roles etc.

This is to be expected.

As you have noticed long walks can help. Being in nature will generally help.
It sometimes feels that the I, me, self is sensing what is going on and it can feel it’s coming demise. In reaction if fights for dear life and sends me these attack thoughts like: “what are you doing? Throw away that book. It is dangerous and it will make you go mad. This is all just nonsense.
The threat / doubt you mention here is a classic example.

You have seen that there is no self but then thoughts come relating to it's existance.

Who or what is there to go mad?

You answer yourself by noticing that the thoughts are nonesense - they do not need to be believed.

Get back to me with any responses to what I have said (even though I haven't really asked you direct questions).

Keep noticing thought.

Relax, enjoy and explore your new perspective.

As I said above - it looks to me that you are correct and have gated. Well done.

However I am happy to chat with you a bit to help you stabalise and explore (feel more comfortable) and then when we are happy to we can show our conversation to other guides (for confirmation) and they may or may not have further questions.

Hope this helps.

Michael

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Phil
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Re: at the gate

Postby Phil » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:48 pm

Michael, thank you for your kind guidance and support. And also for confirming what I wrote and your advice on how to procede. Although short is has been an intense experience.

Right now I have no further remarks. It feels like I have to process all that happened for a bit (stabalize, explore and feel more comfortable). For now I feel like a stranger in a new land. I will get back to you when I feel I need your help or have a question.

Having other guides look at the conversation sounds like and interesting idea, very open to that.

For now thank you very much, what a shift, what a gift. Thank you.

Phil.
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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MichaelD
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Re: at the gate

Postby MichaelD » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:09 pm

Hi Phil,
Having other guides look at the conversation sounds like and interesting idea, very open to that.

For now thank you very much, what a shift, what a gift. Thank you.
Great!

I will present our conversation to senior guides. This is the process of confirmation. If they have any further pointers or quenstions I will get back to you with them. If the other guides are happy then you will be invited to a couple of closed f/b groups (Unleashed and Aftercare17) where you can explore your new perspective with other folk.

There are also other post gate ways to dialogue and explore and of course when / if you are happy to you can also guide others.

If you are confirmed you may be informed by email or PM so keep a look out, and on this forum too as I will get back to you either with further questions or to keep you updated.

All best wishes,

Michael

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MichaelD
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Re: at the gate

Postby MichaelD » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:27 pm

Hi,

You have been confirmed!

Well done - you are a Gated (non) being.

We are done here but as I said before keep an eye out here, PM and email for invites from admins.

If you want to friend me on fb you are welcome. My name is Kevin Michael Donovan.

All best wishes Phil.

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Phil
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Re: at the gate

Postby Phil » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:15 pm

It all feels very unreal right now, which is a great feeling. Send you a message on FB.
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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Phil
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Re: at the gate

Postby Phil » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:03 pm

Hello Michael,
It’s been six weeks sinds I crashed the gate. At the start of the second week of the year. And I just felt like touching base.

It has been an interesting six weeks. The feeling of shifting paradigms, the falling feeling has become a constant, my new reality. My mind remains freed from a lot of the worring it did before, that is a constant too. That gift can not be stressed enough. It also has the side effect that I spend much more time in the now instead of the past or future. Which in turns seems to change my perception of time. Like time has slowed down. And the quality of the data is better: clearer pictures, more awareness of the flow of consciousness happening by itself.

When I do get caught up in a story, I can use a thought, a smell or an emotion to do direct pointing on myself. That what I saw when crashing the gate can be brought back into focus if needed effortlessly.

Rereading all the Jed McKenna books (this must be the 4th time) and now I read them very differently than the other tree times. Now I am standing on the other side and everything he says falls into place.

Not doing a lot of writing especially. Doing some. Finally know what I am doing when I’m writing too. Thanks to LU. Before I tried it because I learned about it in Jed McKenna’s books. But it didn’t really feel like I knew what I was doing. Now it does. Which I am very happy about because I guess that is the technique I am going to be using to do the deprogramming that follows gating.

Right now I feel not in a hurry. If I don’t feel like writing, I don’t write.

Been checking out the website and stubbled upon the article by Damon Camda entitled Inquiry into desire and ill will. Interesting stuff. Using the same pointing technique on every individual belief that comes up.

It says that your ‘vices’ might actually increase for a while after gating and I have had that experience myself. I am a lot less strict in meditations than usual too. Just more being and less having to. Also the conditions surrounding my ending employment are a factor in launching old programms for protecting old beliefs.

I do question desire when it comes up. I seem to question everything all the time now. Like an automated response to every thought or feeling, must, should and want. However, it is like there are beliefs and then there are preferences. For instance my mind sometimes likes to indulge in stories, well aware since gating that it can be no more than a story. After gating, a lot of storytelling falls away. And I find that the mind does needs stories, as a distraction from doing totally nothing, especially when I don’t feel like writing instead. And just like with the daydreaming on purpose, there are also other preferences that I like to indulge in, even after gating. I guess time and investigation will tell the preferences from the old programming that is but a proctive mechanism that is doing a very good job at what is does: protecting an outdated belief.

I was in a lot of pain the last few days, toothage, bad one. And because of the weekend it was very hard to find help from my dentist. In moments of what I call a lot of pain and not knowing what to do with myself, I tried direct pointing. What I felt is that I could take more distance from the pain and make it more tollerable that way. Also like for a few seconds I could make the pain go away. Nothing shocking that could replace painkillers but noticable.

Anyways, those are my thoughts right now and I wanted to share them with you.
Stop following the crowd. They're lost as fuck.
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