Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

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redlotus
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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:44 pm

Dear Swallow

Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses to my writings. Things seemed to get clearer this morning, it is trying to focus thoughts on question of who is thinking that is troublesome, but it is obvious mind is thinking, not me. Mind does not want to look at itself. When mind relaxes peace returns, thoughts quieten and heart feels balanced. Thoughts are still there, as you say. In the moment they come and go without struggle. Things stay clear. Things that must be thought about still happen, but in easy flow of ideas, possibilities.

There is no solid self Christine, seen when reflecting on being different people in different circumstances, as if energy flows are unique depending on place, company, time ... even physical body transforms and is not fixed. Idea of being no-self makes me laugh, me with a PhD in psychology, HA HA! Contacting those feelings of loss and sadness but they have become so slight already, no panic now.

Picture of tiny fragments of imaginary 'Christine' breaking up and sprinkling around, so true Christine looks clear and light, able to be present to each moment with new flexibility ...no self to maintain. That feels peaceful.
Explain what being peaceful means? Who is it that feels peaceful? Is there no peace when there is thought?
This feeling of being no-self feels peaceful, heart-centred, OK with what is happening, responsive, inwardly smiling. Thoughts can come and go in this peace, no problem, but head is not trying to direct thinking.

Big question: who is it that feels peaceful? Inner self? Divine Self? Christine? Christine is peaceful with being who she is, not having to be any other way, not worrying about past or future. True nature is peace, starting to shine through. Allowing others to be how they are too. There is more work to do here on who feels peaceful!

I understand the idea of not thinking, thank you for pointing out that it is human nature to be thinking, how lovely to have thinking the way it is at the moment :) No doubt there will be times when it becomes troublesome again, such as when some upset happens, but right now thinking is peaceful, spontaneous, harmonious. Being in the moment includes thoughts, feelings, seeing, hearing, knowing, everything flowing harmoniously.

Minding a two year old today, so every moment will be new and fun, if a little tiring,

Christine

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Swallow
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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby Swallow » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:46 pm

Dear Christine,

Thanks for your message. It sounds like things are becoming clearer.
This feeling of being no-self feels peaceful, heart-centred, OK with what is happening, responsive, inwardly smiling


Yes. This is beautiful and all accepting....even the “negative” stuff, for there is no self…it is all illusion.
so true Christine looks clear and light, able to be present to each moment with new flexibility
If this is true, who/what is Christine when there are troublesome dark thoughts or heavy feelings?
Christine is peaceful with being who she is, not having to be any other way, not worrying about past or future.


Very good!! But not to forget that the mind does worry about the past and the future...that is how it was conditioned.
it is obvious mind is thinking, not me


A very nice insight! Is there a "me"? Or is there just awareness of the mind thinking?
Big question: who is it that feels peaceful?


Yes the 100 (australian) dollar question!
Think about something that makes you peaceful.
Is there a feeling of peace in the body?
When the sun shines on the skin, the warm sea wind blowing, the sound of the waves. A deep breath and a relaxed body….and then the thought comes up “I am peaceful”…
This is just the body relaxing which in turns triggers the thought “I am peaceful”. In this process there was no doer no "I ". Just sensations and a thought.
No doing, No Christine.
Think about something stressful. Can you feel it in your body?
Observe how thoughts can create body sensations and how in turn body sensations can create thought.

Try it out today. Just observe the flowing of thought to body sensations back to thought. Sometimes thought will continue for a while and then awareness will kick back to bodily sensations….seeing, hearing, smelling etc… When you can, try to trace back the thought…who created this thought? Did a previous thought create this thought? Or did a bodily sensation trigger this thought (seeing, touching, smelling etc.)?

Have a great day!!

Swallow

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:59 pm

Dear Swallow
Observe how thoughts can create body sensations and how in turn body sensations can create thought.
Have been practising this, with peaceful/pleasant thoughts and unpleasant thoughts and memories. Body feels peaceful or disturbed, but it is a bit removed from me, as if i am watching with compassion, watching a story. "Oh her body is uncomfortable now". Mind kept on a train of unpleasant memories, testing, and each was the same, all the time awareness noticing everything but staying calm, peaceful, while body/mind were disturbed.

The thoughts were triggered by both the previous thought, and the associated body sensations. No thinker... just old patterns. I seem to have been so relaxed since we started corresponding here together, i almost feel like i am on holiday ...which i am now, finished the last class tonight and have two weeks off during the school holidays.... i was feeling like this before today though. An end of striving. Who is relaxed ... "relaxation is present" is better. Since meeting you there is confidence about seeing what is not there, about entering the gateless gate.
Big question: who is it that feels peaceful?
Peace is present, no-one feels peaceful. Right now peace, contentment, comfort, are all present. Typing is happening, time is passing sitting waiting for words to appear, is there something that should be said? No words are coming, thought that the different events of the easter holidays will be a good testing time as we continue together .... testing with social and family events. Is there no self when family meets and old stresses are tested? This will be seen :)

Time for bed!

thank you so much for your time and help, i appreciate it very much Swallow,

Christine

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby Swallow » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:35 pm

Hi Christine,

Great work done!! It is so nice to see how things are coming together and to see that there is awareness of the story of Christine.
Body feels peaceful or disturbed, but it is a bit removed from me, as if i am watching with compassion, watching a story


Fantastic!! When there is awareness of this story, and the realization that the story is not reality, than we do not have to go into it, we do not have to react. And yes! There is peace in that. And when I say ‘we’, I mean ‘the mind’. So what happens is…..the mind creates a thought, a story, and then it realizes that this story is not reality. There is actually no ‘we’ or ‘I’ in this process.
, i almost feel like i am on holiday ...which i am now
Holidays…..enjoy!!! : )
Peace is present, no-one feels peaceful
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Is there no self when family meets and old stresses are tested? This will be seen :)
OK…put it to the test!! But remember, The mind might be triggered, the story/film might be a block buster, but see if, even in the story, if there is a Christine

So, Is there any evidence that there is a 'Christine', a self?

Swallow

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:54 am

Dear Swallow

I have been looking again at thoughts, trying to find the thinker although of course i expect there is none, and there is no problem, mind just gets bored instead of flipping out. Also finding an even calm everywhere, even where Christine usually gets a bit impatient. I look for Christine as a self, behind the doing, the seeing, the thinking, but she is hollow ...sure she has likes and dislikes but these are paper thin, she has story which seems to be being rewritten as funny things come up and are seen differently or appear without charge.

This all seems very hopeful, but there is nothing else new, no radically different view of the world, change of view is sneaking up rather than rushing in like the tide. Seeing two clients this morning (one a professional storyteller) i could encourage them to look at their stuff as a story, one talked about her beliefs changing, so I suggested she leave all beliefs up for testing, as they arise looking at them to see if they are real. She came up with a visual and hand image based on her experience with waterflow in a river. Holding beliefs like a funnel, rather than a cup. Nice!

love,
Christine

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby Swallow » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:13 am

Hi Christine,



I put together what I know about the functioning of the mind. Hope you like it.

Unlike other animals who can move, walk or even run within hours or days, humans are born completely helpless and we stay that way for the first years of our lives. Although we weren’t given the ability to take care of ourselves at an early stage, humans are given this amazing tool called the mind. They are born with this mind and it helps them to adapt to all kinds of situations, dangers, helps us to learn languages, drive, tie our shoes etc.
Even with this advanced mind we are still 100% dependent on a caregiver to take care of us. Infants are not only extremely intelligent and open, they are also aware of the fact that they are helpless. So from day one they are feeling out how the world functions around them. When I cry, does my caregiver come? or does she/he put me in a room and close the door? If I laugh/smile does my caregiver pick me up, hold me? Am I given love if I fall down and hurt myself? Etc.. etc.. So slowly we build up a ‘way of being’ in order to get the caregiver to give us the things we need in order to survive. We also copy ways of being to fit in with our caregivers. These strategies/ conditioning go on our whole lifetime, but it is said that our basis strategies are formed in the first four years of our lives.
We could say that our mind is like a computer. The hard drive was programmed in the first four years of our lives when we were dependent on others. The hard drive of our computer tells us how we should act in situations, and this is done in a subconscious way. In one situation three people might act completely different, one might freeze, one might fight and one might flee. This all has to do with what their ‘computer program’ or learned strategy is. Now, Adults are no longer dependent on others for their survival, BUT the computer is still running the old programs. “I need S. to love me. I need to make a good living. X needs to respect me. I need to change my job.” The mind continually creates thoughts....and all of these thoughts are based on our original fear of survival. Just listen to most of the pop songs..... “I can’t live without you...” “I need your love”....or listen to people around you...there is usually something people feel they need or something that is missing. It is all the mantra of the mind....I am helpless, I need someone to love and take care of me. Even the pursuit of fame and fortune is rooted in this fear. All of this searching, needing, wanting....the mantra of the mind. And this illusion can be seen when we ask one simple question....Is It True?
What IS the reality of this moment? I would say 100% without a problem (unless the roof is falling down). We are completely supported by existence. Breathing is done, the heart beats, this complex body functions, if we are cold we pull on a sweater, if we are hungry we go to the fridge, and for most of us reading this...we live in abundance....but we overlook this.
What is true.... the Mantra of the Mind or the Reality of this moment???

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby Swallow » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:23 am

I could have written the whole message without an "I" "we" or "us" and it would be even truer. There never was an "I"... just the mind doing its job. :)

Swallow

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redlotus
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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Perfect Swallow, as testing, feeling, looking for Christine, emptiness is there ...tried looking at the story and found it is changing quickly "Child was born, was not who mother wanted, mother loved her desperately but due to frozen heart could not express that love", WHAT? mother loved her desperately is completely new! So early programming was coming up this morning, and then you wrote about it too :) Fun! Beautiful day to you, love, Christine

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby Swallow » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:12 pm

Dear Christine,

When we recognise truth we see it in everything...even in our parents. We see how they are also human, with conditioned minds...also just doing the best they can. There is acceptance and freedom in this truth.

It seems as though there is a real understanding that there is no ‘Christine’. Well done! I had marked down some things from your previous message. This might be nitpicking, but if you could look at a couple of things for me.
The mind will constantly bring up the story that there is a ‘Christine’, so it is important to look at every belief under a microscope.
sure she has likes and dislikes but these are paper thin
If there is no ‘Christine’ then from where do these likes and dislikes come?
there is nothing else new, no radically different view of the world
Yes. That is the funny thing….what changes is the belief that there is an ‘I’ doing it all, but that does not usually go hand in hand with earth shattering changes.
Although in my experience, some stories do fall away.
trying to find the thinker although of course i expect there is none


Well, either there is one or there isn’t…..no in between, so trust this insight.

Here is another exercise for you. Could you go out to nature and explain the fact that there is no one thinking, like you were explaining it to a child. Explain the conditioning in the belief in ‘I’, what you have learned….and what that now means to the illusion of ‘Christine’.

Have fun!

Swallow

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:32 pm

Dear Swallow,
Thank you again for your attention to detail! Yesterday had to do something as a support to my husband, the I came up, "I dont want to do it" had a good chance to examine what it was, and think about the likes and dislikes question. Still working on that! The body and mind have their habits, patterns, but also there needs to be inspiration for action, rather than "should", a lot to focus attention over easter, examine, will let you know how it goes tonight. Busy day ahead,
love Christine

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby Swallow » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Hi Christine,

By the time you get this it will probably be Easter in Australia....Happy Easter!! I hope you have a great time with your family.
As you have probably noticed, the mind is easily triggered when family is around! Use this as an opportunity to see how quickly this process goes. When does a thought get triggered, is there a reaction in the body? Does the mind keep creating thoughts around a particular theme? Just observe the mind doing it's job.... And if a strong feeling of 'Christine' comes up...just observe this as well.
The body and mind have their habits, patterns, but also there needs to be inspiration for action
What is inspiration? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Inspiration sounds romantic, but it is just another word...another desire of the mind.
Mind feels inspired to create a new garden.....so body comes into action. What created this inspiration? The mind thinks....when this fabulous new garden is finished, it will look so nice, I can meditate in it, it will give me peace.
Is there peace here and now or only in the projected future when the garden is finished?
Is there a fear of what life would look like if there was no garden?
There is nothing wrong with inspiration, but it is interesting to see it for what it is. The mind, projecting a better future. Just observe how this process works. Does inspiration reinforce the idea of a 'Christine'?

If you get a chance to do this exercise in the next couple of days, I would love to hear what comes up.
Could you go out to nature and explain to a tree the fact that there is no one thinking; like you were explaining it to a child. Explain how the mind was conditioned to believe in ‘I’. What have you learned? and how does this knowledge affect 'Christine'?

warm easter greetings,

Swallow

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:09 pm

Dear Swallow

No quiet time for talking to nature until today ... will get back to you soon ... no more big problems ... have continued with investigations in small ways when possible between busyness and tiredness ...have begun realising deeper ramifications of being no-self ... who suffers from karma? ...etc ... is there any point in prayer? of course all my yoga philosophy is up for grabs as well .... just wondering all these kinds of things ...feel a bit paralyzed!

Still peaceful and easy-going with all the comings and goings of Easter,

love,
Christine

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby Swallow » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:26 am

Hi Christine,

Nice to hear from you.
who suffers from karma? ...etc ... is there any point in prayer?


Interesting questions. There are religions and societies built on karma and prayer….and then when there is realization of no-self, these things fall away.
feel a bit paralyzed!
What is it that feels paralyzed?

Great investigations Christine!! How was your talk in nature?

Love,
Swallow

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:02 pm

Dear Swallow

Talking to the night sky about being no-self, explaining about being life, life being, expressing, seeing it like waves coming and going on the beach, life flowing and receding in each way of expression. At the same time feeling/seeing little plugs of self unplugging from the great bank of ideas of self built up during a lifetime. Nothing here but life in this moment, no past/future to cling to. Realise more of this unplugging to come. Dont know yet how it will be teaching yoga, so much to unravel and sort!

Playing with my granddaughter at the stage of distinguishing her self from the world around her, wondering how else it can go for children, at least in our culture.

Sore throat and sniffles today, typical of 'holiday' time, so cocooning for a while,

love, Christine

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Re: Invitation to newcomers to fly with Swallow

Postby redlotus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:47 pm

PS Forgot to answer about being paralyzed ...what feels paralyzed? Without the driving I direction is still uncertain, things are happening, but mind wants to jump in and put the old point of view, when that quiets there is stillness, a bit stop start, a desire arises to do something then investigation begins instead of action ... not putting it very clearly ... perhaps it is the remnants of I that is paralyzed, unable to control as it used to??? Life flows on but jerky as it were.


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