Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

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Rayd8
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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:47 pm

OK, let me get this out of the way fist, and I'll continue with the questions after this:
Aaaahhhhh...

What IS, is Raw experience without thought/labels...
YES! Bingo :)
And that's the weird part. Lately, everything feels different. Everything looks sharper, more real, raw. When people talk to me, I never feel "accused." It's very hard to feel "attacked." Life is flowing so easily. Things get resolved on their own with no, or almost no input from Ray.
That’s wonderful Ray…you have had a shift in perception.
But on the other hand, i struggle with some of the exercises... Like I'm missing something? Like I'm expecting something completely different? I don't know...
Yes…and the key word here is EXPECTING.
I think that what "I" expect to "happen" is to lose the idea of the Ray (individual), but when this happens, shouldn't I be able to experience from everything/everywhere? Should I be able to experience from the coffee mug's perspective, and the table's, and the chair's and the dog's at will?

Like I mentioned, I experience things without labels almost all of the time now. I guess I have to deal with my expectations, but how do I deal with expectations of something I've never been thought? The only thing that I can think of is to simply let go of any expectation and keep going with the process...

I will answer the questions on the next post.

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Rayd8
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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:20 pm

Does colour have a beginning and an ending?
No, because color is a thought. It is like an "opinion" or "judgment" about what IS.
The word ‘colour’ is a thought. Thought tries to describe THIS by using the word ‘colour’. The same goes for the words sound, smell, taste, thought and sensation. However, those labels are pointing to AE. Thoughts either point to AE or they point to thoughts about thought.
Is this clear?
Yes. This is clear.
As soon as experience/THIS has been labelled it becomes divided. It becomes divided into 6 main categories: - sound AND smell AND thought AND colour AND taste AND sensation. If you take away the AND it is soundsmellthoughtcolourtastesensation which denotes that there is no division. However, the ‘thinking mind’ still sees even that as separate words pointing to experience having 6 different forms.
So let’s replace soundsmellthoughtcolourtastesensation with just X.
X = experience/THIS exactly as it is.
Without thought, everything would be uniform. Thought is what divides, decides, categorizes, codifies every thing... Without thought, everything would be the same... No divisions.
What do you mean when you say this?
I mean that it is Thought that assigns the divisions of everything. It divides the Raw Experience (X) into:
A "plant"
a "stem"
a "flower"
then divides the flower into more "parts" like:
"petals"
"pistil" etc, etc
AND, thought divides it more into:
"Colors of each part: red, different shades of green," etc
AND smell,
AND "Opinions" (thought),
AND sensations... etc etc etc...
Seeing and knowing are one and the same. Seeing of colour and seeing of seeing are one and the same = colour. Are seeing and knowing separate or are they one and the same. Is seeing of colour and seeing of seeing different, or are they are one and the same ie colour?
The "Seeing" through the body's eyeballs (see-er/seeing/seen) is so ingrained in the "mind" that it's really hard to think without it... Hmmm, which means, it's all thought/illusion, not Raw Experience (X).

I do feel a real perception shift has happened. The effect of this shift affects every aspect of life. I just don't know if there is more to be done, or am I lost in semantics, language and definitions... (thought).
The seeing is assumed to be happening, but cannot be found, and the see-er cannot be found either.
What does ‘assumed’ point to?
"Assumed" points to thought.

There is no separation between the See-er, Seeing, and Seen. It cannot be found.

But the expectation is that if this is the case, shouldn't there be an obvious change in perspective, or viewpoint, or perception when this is realized?

Thanks again Kay.

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Wed May 01, 2019 4:22 am

Hello Ray,
But on the other hand, i struggle with some of the exercises... Like I'm missing something? Like I'm expecting something completely different? I don't know...
Yes…and the key word here is EXPECTING.
I think that what "I" expect to "happen" is to lose the idea of the Ray (individual), but when this happens, shouldn't I be able to experience from everything/everywhere? Should I be able to experience from the coffee mug's perspective, and the table's, and the chair's and the dog's at will?
"I think" might be a clue to your seeming conundrum! You are not LOSING anything. How can you lose what doesn’t exist? All that happens is that you see that what you thought you were is just a story.

Ray…I want you to ponder this carefully. There is NO Rayself NOW who is reading this, and there has NEVER HAS BEEN a Rayself…EVER. This idea that you should be able to experience the perspectives from a coffee mug….how can this happen..when there is no Rayself who is experiencing anything and there is no such thing as a coffee mug! Is a coffee mug known? What is the AE of a coffee mug? What is the AE of a dog?

Secondly. THIS/experience itself seemingly APPEARS as these ‘things’ but does not BECOME them. So how can ‘things’ have perspectives. There is no Rayself that has perspectives! That is all part of the story…the dream! You (not Rayself) ARE the appearance of the story of being someone trying to become oneness!!

To experience "the taste of ice cream", you would have to be separate from the taste of ice cream. But if you are "taste of ice cream", you can only be aware of being the taste of ice cream.
Do you see the difference?


There is no becoming ONE with every ‘thing’. That points to separation. We did the following exercise back on the 26th of April. If you are clear on this…then how can you expect to become one with ‘things’? Go back and read your responses to these questions.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7142&start=45#p277501

Look at the display before you.
When seeing it, is there any division between seeing, see-er, and the seen?
Are these three separate?
If yes, can you find the boundary between the three? Not an imagined, conceptual boundary, but an actual boundary that can be perceived with one or more of the senses?
Like I mentioned, I experience things without labels almost all of the time now. I guess I have to deal with my expectations, but how do I deal with expectations of something I've never been thought? The only thing that I can think of is to simply let go of any expectation and keep going with the process...
We looked at expectations when we began this exploration together. Expectations are nothing more than an idea (thought) – a mental concept. A meaning is given to both the expectation and the current experience which are then compared and labelled as “liberation” or “not liberation” because of how it is being perceived, and for the desire for liberation to look the way we want it to look/feel. Every expectation is in the way of seeing what is here, right now. Every single expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. There is nothing to be done with expectations, other than to become aware of them.
Seeing and knowing are one and the same. Seeing of colour and seeing of seeing are one and the same = colour. Are seeing and knowing separate or are they one and the same. Is seeing of colour and seeing of seeing different, or are they are one and the same ie colour?
The "Seeing" through the body's eyeballs (see-er/seeing/seen) is so ingrained in the "mind" that it's really hard to think without it... Hmmm, which means, it's all thought/illusion, not Raw Experience (X).
Yes, precisely.

Look at whatever is in front of you. Is it seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes), or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen? Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?
I do feel a real perception shift has happened. The effect of this shift affects every aspect of life. I just don't know if there is more to be done, or am I lost in semantics, language and definitions... (thought).
The question is…how do you feel now compared to when we started the exploration?
Is seeking still going on? And I mean seeking…not questions.
What has changed and what has stayed the same.

The seeing is assumed to be happening, but cannot be found, and the see-er cannot be found either.
What does ‘assumed’ point to?
"Assumed" points to thought.
Yes…assumed points to thought. And are those thoughts pointing to AE or to further thought?
But the expectation is that if this is the case, shouldn't there be an obvious change in perspective, or viewpoint, or perception when this is realized?
No..that is another expectation. Some have a light bulb moment and for others it is a subtle shift. The litmus test is how you feel, not what you know.

Realising 'no self' happens, but there will also be periods of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all normal. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit...so yo-yoing happens. There is clear seeing that there is no self and in the next moment this clarity is muddied...all normal experiences. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through though; and like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Rayd8
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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Wed May 01, 2019 2:22 pm

OK, I see where things are now.

The issue here is language and expectations which causes the yo-yoing...

Here's "where things are at now":

What is kown:

There is no "I" to be found.

Separation between the seen, see-ing and see-er cannot be found.

There is the constant AE of sound, color, smell, taste, sensation, thought (SoundColorSmellTasteSensationThought). This is clear and when thought does "bubble up," it is never a Story or Fantasy that immerses an "I" into it. There is no individual to get stuck in it (no brooding or wallowing in thought). It's just AE of thought.

Everything is so easy now. There is no thought-impulse to fix anything, or to transform things/happenings/experience into something "better."

Life now is like the difference between literally swimming against the current versus riding the current knowing that it will flow exactly as it should, where it should, and everything is perfectly fine, no matter what, no matter "where it seems to be going."

It's very "natural" to let "others" do as they may and it's OK that "another" can come up with a solution that "Ray" didn't come up with. It's not all about "me" anymore!

There are no thoughts of being attacked, or insulted, or any "me" related aversions. It's just a ride...

And there is no more "little me" seeking to become someone/something else. I used to be scared that you would disappear before "my training" was complete! There is no fear of "loosing it." There is no such fear anymore... Experience just IS.

Conclusion: There's nothing else to "look for" to "do" to "anything." Any doubts/thought that arise are just that: thought. That's it.

I will share a couple of questions that still arise, although there really is no reason for them. I guess I just want to make sure that there's no stone left unturned.

Questions/doubts/yo-yos:

Q: Number one question/doubt that pops up sometimes: "Are we there yet?" How to know if the search is over? "Am I kidding myself?"

Answer: There is no "there" to arrive at. There is no one to go anywhere and nowhere to get to.
But, this thought comes up every now and then, although it usually shows up when I'm working on answering the posts here.

Q: I cannot get away from speaking in terms of "I" and "Me."
A: Although there is practically no "Narrator Voice" nor "Thought Overlay" anymore - the habit of saying "I'm going to the store" or "There's a sensation on "my hand" is almost impossible to break out of. I believe that this has no consequence in experience though. It doesn't affect what IS at all.

Q: What about others in the play?
I sometimes have the thought of "others." They don't exist either, but this throws a monkey wrench into the gears for me for some reason... This only happens every now and then, but it's one that's hard to comfortably experience.
A: No one exists. It's just like a movie. The characters are fake, but we get attached to the characters and story in the movie. Nevertheless, this pops up every now and then. Especially when an "individual" is telling me a long story.

Q (related to the last one): How and why was the Rayself viewpoint created? Shouldn't this point answered itself when the individual can no longer be found?
A: This should not matter at all, but it does bring doubts/thought. The "why" is like "a thorn in my side."

That's it for questions/doubts... I'm sure that the solution is to ignore them - to ignore thought, like you said.

I know these seem like a "going backwards" but I'm being 100% honest in my process and want to make sure - doubts/expectations/thoughts.

...

I'll go through your questions on the next post.

Thanks for your patience Kay!

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Wed May 01, 2019 5:59 pm

To experience "the taste of ice cream", you would have to be separate from the taste of ice cream. But if you are "taste of ice cream", you can only be aware of being the taste of ice cream.
Do you see the difference?
Yes. I see it.
Look at whatever is in front of you. Is it seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes), or is it like a windscreen view?

Windscreen/movie screen.
Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen?
No separation. Only the screen.
Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?
There is only experience. This is clear.
The question is…how do you feel now compared to when we started the exploration?
I answered this in the previous post. Big difference. Life is an easy flow now versus a constant struggle to change everything...
Is seeking still going on? And I mean seeking…not questions.
What has changed and what has stayed the same.
No more seeking anymore. (See previous post for details).
Everything is the same, but different at the same time -another paradox... The thinking ABOUT is pretty much gone. Thoughts can still arise every now and then, but they don't "take over" experience. The blanket overlay of thought is no longer there as it was before.
The seeing is assumed to be happening, but cannot be found, and the see-er cannot be found either.
What does ‘assumed’ point to?
"Assumed" points to thought.
Yes…assumed points to thought. And are those thoughts pointing to AE or to further thought?
"Seeing" is "assumed - So "assumed seeing" is a thought about a thought. This is clear.
Realising 'no self' happens, but there will also be periods of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all normal. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit...so yo-yoing happens. There is clear seeing that there is no self and in the next moment this clarity is muddied...all normal experiences. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through though; and like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.
The rug is definitely unraveling "all time." It would be good to cut off some of the remaining knots though. The ones in my questions on the last post.

What do you think should be the next step?

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Wed May 01, 2019 11:10 pm

Hello Ray,

We haven’t completed this exploration yet! Realisation has happened, however there are still places to investigate where ideas of the separate self can ‘hide’.
Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen?
No separation. Only the screen.
Great! So it’s clear that there is no you looking our through the eyes as this picture depicts! (smiling)

Image
The question is…how do you feel now compared to when we started the exploration?
I answered this in the previous post. Big difference. Life is an easy flow now versus a constant struggle to change everything...
Lovely!
What do you think should be the next step?
Is that we continue this exploration to the end :)


Okay. Moving onto the idea of control, decision making and choosing

So let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Thu May 02, 2019 1:27 pm

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

How is the movement controlled?
There is no way to know this in AE.
Does a thought control it?
No.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No. Not in Raw experience.
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
There is No entity, individual, thought, or idea to be found in AE that is controlling this motion. Weird, but true.

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Thu May 02, 2019 10:52 pm

Hey Ray,
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
There is No entity, individual, thought, or idea to be found in AE that is controlling this motion. Weird, but true.
Terrific! So let’s continue looking at choice and decision making

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

You need to get any two different drinks you like for this exercise, ie coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc. One will be drink A the other will be drink B

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Fri May 03, 2019 12:16 am

Hey Kay!

Here are the answers to the last questions. 😎
Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
They appeared by themselves!
In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event?
This happened automatically.
Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?
No.
Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
No and No.
In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
There was no "chooser."
Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?
No. A feeling cannot choose. A "feeling" is a label/thought.

Thanks!

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Fri May 03, 2019 1:11 am

Hi Ray,

Okay, so we have looked at the idea of a controller, decider and chooser. Now let’s look at the idea of a doer/doership.

We’ll do a little exercise on this topic. It has to do with the sense of seeing.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

Can you turn off seeing?

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Fri May 03, 2019 1:19 am

Questions/doubts/yo-yos:
Q: Number one question/doubt that pops up sometimes: "Are we there yet?" How to know if the search is over? "Am I kidding myself?"
Answer: There is no "there" to arrive at. There is no one to go anywhere and nowhere to get to.

But, this thought comes up every now and then, although it usually shows up when I'm working on answering the posts here.
There is no getting anywhere! Where are you trying to get to exactly? Where is the finish line? The shift has happened…ie the realisation has happened that there is no separate self. I have already explained to you about this exploration being a beginning and not an ending.
Q: I cannot get away from speaking in terms of "I" and "Me."
A: Although there is practically no "Narrator Voice" nor "Thought Overlay" anymore - the habit of saying "I'm going to the store" or "There's a sensation on "my hand" is almost impossible to break out of. I believe that this has no consequence in experience though. It doesn't affect what IS at all.
Are you the author of thought? Can you control what thought appears and when and what that thought is about or is pointing to? It would be pretty hard to go through life without saying I, me or my, don’t you think?

What are thoughts actually ‘made of’? I am sure we covered this as well. Perhaps it’s a good idea to go back and re-read your thread. Thought is not what thought describes itself as. Experience/THIS is ‘appearing’ as thought…not the other way round.
Q: What about others in the play?
I sometimes have the thought of "others." They don't exist either, but this throws a monkey wrench into the gears for me for some reason... This only happens every now and then, but it's one that's hard to comfortably experience.

A: No one exists. It's just like a movie. The characters are fake, but we get attached to the characters and story in the movie. Nevertheless, this pops up every now and then. Especially when an "individual" is telling me a long story.
Yeah…so LOOK! LOOK and see if what is appearing is actually what thought says it is! You will have to continue LOOKING. That doesn’t stop just because you have had the realisation of no self!
Q (related to the last one): How and why was the Rayself viewpoint created? Shouldn't this point answered itself when the individual can no longer be found?
A: This should not matter at all, but it does bring doubts/thought. The "why" is like "a thorn in my side."
Why should that be answered because no self has been realised?
The question is LOOK to see what it is exactly that is asking the question and wants to know?

Is thought really trying to understand something? Do thoughts knows something? Are thoughts having a hard time digesting something? Or are thoughts simply repeating their story, with variations about something trying to figure out the story?


Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Fri May 03, 2019 12:53 pm

Hey Kay,

Thanks for answering my stupid questions! It all makes perfect sense.

Now...
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes.

The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Exactly, vision cannot be turned off. It's always on, even with eyes closed and there is no individual to control it.
Reminds me of something Alan Watts used to say: "Can you see behind your field of vision?"
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Nope. It cannot be turned off.
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Blackness is seen. Cannot be turned off.
Can you turn off seeing?
Nope.
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
Nope. Not chooser to be found anywhere.
If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
Hmmmmm. Nothing... Interesting.

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Fri May 03, 2019 10:43 pm

Hey Ray,
Thanks for answering my stupid questions! It all makes perfect sense.
They were not stupid questions. But if you ask a question and there is nothing but silence…then that is the answer! ;) Always check questions with AE…it is by doing this you get your own answers. What is the thought/question asking? Does the answer come from further thoughts or as AE?

A great tool to use to see whether thought is adding “virtual layers” via stories about experience, is to replace the thought itself with “blahblahblah” to see if what thought is referring to remains. The more complex the idea, the more “virtual layers” have been added. So the layers of the story, which are pure fantasy need to be stripped away, until all that remains is the bare bones.

A simple example is if thought appears saying “I am confused”. Does the thought “I am confused” contain any actual confusion? Replace that thought with “blahblahblah” and see what remains. Let me know how you go.
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes.
The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Exactly, vision cannot be turned off. It's always on, even with eyes closed and there is no individual to control it.
Reminds me of something Alan Watts used to say: "Can you see behind your field of vision?"
Yeah…great pointer by Alan!
If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
Hmmmmm. Nothing... Interesting.
You can’t choose a thought, you can’t choose what you are saying, doing, thinking, feeling, seeing, smelling, tasting or hearing. So what else is there to choose? So there is no chooser, controller, decider, thinker, doer, sayer or feeler…then what are ‘you’ actually responsible for?

Okay, so let’s have a look at the body.
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?


Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Rayd8
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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Sat May 04, 2019 1:02 am

Hey Kay,

[quote]Always check questions with AE…it is by doing this you get your own answers. What is the thought/question asking? Does the answer come from further thoughts or as AE?[/quote]
This is very helpful. One thing I do is label "Sound"... "Color"... "Sensation"... But this is very good as well.

[quote]You can’t choose a thought, you can’t choose what you are saying, doing, thinking, feeling, seeing, smelling, tasting or hearing. So what else is there to choose? So there is no chooser, controller, decider, thinker, doer, sayer or feeler…then what are ‘you’ actually responsible for?[/quote]
Yes! I've been thinking about this in the last few days... I can see how people's choices are the result of other things that happened before... I also saw many example of this in "Ray's" past.

Life is living itself. If it is left to itself "Ray's life" is easy. Everything falls into place by itself. Also, there is no preference. Being at work... Being at home in a day off is pretty much the same. Everything is perfectly fine, always.

Life is easy and flowing. I am so grateful!

OK, I will work on the next exercise tonight and tomorrow and answer the questions in another post when I'm done.

Thanks again Kay!

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forgetmenot
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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Sat May 04, 2019 5:19 am

Hello Ray,
You can’t choose a thought, you can’t choose what you are saying, doing, thinking, feeling, seeing, smelling, tasting or hearing. So what else is there to choose? So there is no chooser, controller, decider, thinker, doer, sayer or feeler…then what are ‘you’ actually responsible for?
Yes! I've been thinking about this in the last few days... I can see how people's choices are the result of other things that happened before... I also saw many example of this in "Ray's" past.
??? Did you find a chooser, decider or controller in any of the exercises that looked at this?
Go back and do the hand flipping exercise, the drink exercise and the what you are aware of exercise and tell me if there is a chooser, decider or controller?

Not only that...if there is no you who is a separate self...then how can there be others who are separate selves?

There is no such thing as the past! What is the 'past' in AE?
What is it exactly that has a past?


Life is living itself. If it is left to itself "Ray's life" is easy. Everything falls into place by itself. Also, there is no preference. Being at work... Being at home in a day off is pretty much the same. Everything is perfectly fine, always.
There is no one or nothing that can get in the road of life lifing. Can you find anyone or anything that doing the lifing? There is no Ray to interfere with how life life's!

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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