Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

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Rayd8
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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:53 pm

Hi Kay,

I don't know where you find the patience to deal with I dividuals like me!

It must be like hearing kittens!

The crazy thing is that I did read your post about 10 times before, while and after I posted my reply. I'm looking at what you're pointing out for me... But as I read your last reply, I see the mistakes I made. I see what you're saying - I think!

I see how the "I" creeps in ALL THE TIME! but I didn't see it when I wrote it. I was really looking at it carefully. How everything "MUST BE MINE! My precious! My precious everything! And she wantsss it! She wants to take it from me! My precious!"

So, it's almost 8:00 am here. I will take my time and study carefully your. Last post and do the exercises and answer carefully.

You'll see my reply later today, maybe tonight.

Again, I really appreciate your time and efforts.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:08 pm

Hello Ray,
I see how the "I" creeps in ALL THE TIME! but I didn't see it when I wrote it. I was really looking at it carefully. How everything "MUST BE MINE! My precious! My precious everything! And she wantsss it! She wants to take it from me! My precious!"
Just be aware of when the label "I" appears...but at this stage there is no expectation of you realising 'no self'. We are at the beginning of the exploration and at this stage you are learning what actual experience (AE) is, and learning how to look with/at actual experience. That's all. So that is all I want you to concentrate on please.

The exercise of listening to sounds and then choosing one sound, which, for you was 'birds chirping' and the questions given, were the first step in you learning what AE is. We are continuing to learn and only learn what AE is at this moment. Nothing more.

Shifting from thinking to looking takes time, and can be frustrating, and requires some practice. Try leaving expectations about how life/you will it be to the side. Expectations are thoughts about how things can be in an imagined future. And thoughts are the "wrong tool" to do this inquiry. This is about noticing what can be found in your immediate direct/actual experience, noticing what's going on here now and describing what can be found.

I will repeat the following:-

Okay, now we become aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.
‘Looking’ is just plain looking at actual/direct experience (AE), which is simply colour (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment. You are looking at the raw experience of AE and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience. The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self and that there has never been a separate self.

The interpretation of actual experience happens quickly. So while inquiring, labelling and interpretation will always appear, but it is possible to become aware of the thoughts that appear with,and overlay actual experience. Another key component of this exploration is being able to tell the difference between actual experience and the interpretation by thought of actual experience


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Rayd8
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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:16 am

Hello Kay,

Thank you again for working with me!

We are continuing to learn and only learn what AE is at this moment. Nothing more.


You must be reading my mind... I lost track and I was going for No-Self all along. I'll concentrate on learning AE for now.

"There is no ‘sight’. There would have to be someone who is seeing for there to be sight. There is no separation. There is no one seeing colour...there is just colour.

Knowing ABOUT something is called knowledge (ie thought). Knowing what actually IS, is direct/actual. Nothing is known as in knowledge – only thought says something is known because thought seemingly knows it.

Thought labels all raw experience with a story.

There is no ‘you’ having an AE of anything! There is no subject/object split."
I noticed that, in the phrase "Actual Experience" (AE), the word "Experience" is throwing me off because when I think "experience," I think of object/subject, or action/doer. Someone "Experiencing the Truth." The Seeker. Which turns into the Eternal Seeker because the one who seeks (also the Witness or Observer) does Not exist!

So the "I" keeps getting thrown into the mix. So I'll think of AE as Actual (Direct RAW) Experience, but as a happening without an observer, (non-dual)... I'll go through your questions with this in mind. I'll also do my best to stay On-track and not stray afield.

I went to the park today and did the "Bird Chirping Experiment" again, noticing AE before the labels kicked in, and I noticed that EVERYTHING - Every THING - is a Label or Thought. Everything is a Thought! At least the way I was experiencing it - See? Experience. The language is a problem!

But, by holding on to an "I" that experiences, each and every thing gets a label - Thought overlays every thing!

OK, Here we go!

===============================================

What is the AE of ‘bird’?

The AE (Actual Direct/RAW Experience) of 'bird' is THOUGHT! 'bird' is a Label and a Label is a Thought! As in AE of Image, where Red is a Label/Thought.

How can AE show you that sound and image of bird are connected? Without thought, how could this possibly be known?

It cannot be known. AE can't do that because the whole connection between sound and image idea/logic, is a Thought. I see this now.
I see Mind as a container full of thoughts...
What?? What is the AE of mind?
Where is this container located exactly?
What does it look like exactly…please describe it in precise detail.
Hahahahaha! Where the hell did I get a container other than a THOUGHT?!?! Mind is Thought.
I see this now.

I am not in the least bit interested in what a dictionary has to say.

I see. I was trying to make sure that I was receiving the exact idea that you were sending - to make sure that you weren't thinking of one thing and I of another.

This isn’t about what you think you know. This exploration is about unlearning everything you think you know. Knowing ABOUT something is called knowledge (ie thought). Knowing what actually IS, is direct/actual. Nothing is known as in knowledge – only thought says something is known because thought seemingly knows it.


Yes. How is a label any different to a thought? There is no difference between labels and thoughts…they are both AE of thought. Thought labels all raw experience with a story.


The quote above helps me a LOT in nailing what IS (what is Actual).

What does what you wrote point to? Does it point to colour, smell, taste, sensation, sound or thought?

A definition is a thought, so what I wrote actually points to Thought.


What is actually known because it is AE, is label + sound + colour + thoughts. Is a bird actually known?

A "bird" is not ever actually known because a bird is a label/thought [bird]." The direct experience of a "bird" is actually an AE of an image/color.

I believe I'm understanding what AE is without a doubt.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There is no spoon! Apple is a LABEL - a THOUGHT. There is only color/image and thought ABOUT "apple."

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

NO.
The label ‘apple’ is known
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?
Definitely NOT! I see this clearly now.

I get AE (Actual RAW Experience) as opposed to Thoughts ABOUT AE very clearly now.

Understanding this was harder than I thought!

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:35 am

Hey Ray,

Aahh...clarity is now showing...nice :)
I noticed that, in the phrase "Actual Experience" (AE), the word "Experience" is throwing me off because when I think "experience," I think of object/subject, or action/doer. Someone "Experiencing the Truth." The Seeker. Which turns into the Eternal Seeker because the one who seeks (also the Witness or Observer) does Not exist!
Experience is not derived from people and things. People and things are derived from experience. The term ‘experience’, as I use it, is THIS/What IS/Knowing/Awareness. The illusion is that you have experiences. The illusion is that there is an external world that you (e.g. through the body) perceive the so called external world ... and that is what we conventionally call experience. While you hold this belief, you necessarily feel separate because a world over there is only possible if there is a "me" over here. This enquiry is about seeing that the subject-knows-object model of reality is only a belief and reality is non-dual. There is no subject, nor object, only self-aware experience.
What is the AE of ‘bird’?
The AE (Actual Direct/RAW Experience) of 'bird' is THOUGHT! 'bird' is a Label and a Label is a Thought! As in AE of Image, where Red is a Label/Thought.
I don’t quite understand what you are saying here. A thought is not AE of image. A thought is AE of thought. There are no ‘images’. The label ‘image’ is concession used until it is clear that there are no images…only AE of colour.
Is this clear?

How can AE show you that sound and image of bird are connected? Without thought, how could this possibly be known?
It cannot be known. AE can't do that because the whole connection between sound and image idea/logic, is a Thought. I see this now.
Wonderful!~
What does what you wrote point to? Does it point to colour, smell, taste, sensation, sound or thought?
A definition is a thought, so what I wrote actually points to Thought.
Yes, it is the content of the thought ‘mind’. “The mind is a container of thoughts” is the thought. The ensuing thoughts of what that means is the content. The content of thought is simply more thought, and the content of all thought is fantasy.
What is actually known because it is AE, is label + sound + colour + thoughts. Is a bird actually known?
A "bird" is not ever actually known because a bird is a label/thought [bird]." The direct experience of a "bird" is actually an AE of an image/color.
Yes, lovely.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
There is no spoon! Apple is a LABEL - a THOUGHT. There is only color/image and thought ABOUT "apple."
Terrific! Now you are cooking with gas..as they say! :)
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
NO.
Exactly…only thoughts ABOUT an apple are found as actual experience.
However, is an apple actually known?
Definitely NOT! I see this clearly now.
Nice :)
I believe I'm understanding what AE is without a doubt.

I get AE (Actual RAW Experience) as opposed to Thoughts ABOUT AE very clearly now.
Okay, let’s make sure it is clear by doing the following exercise. I would like you to try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:09 pm

Woo-hoo! Starting to feel some clarity here! The puzzle pieces are starting to to come together - slowly but surely...
This enquiry is about seeing that the subject-knows-object model of reality is only a belief and reality is non-dual. There is no subject, nor object, only self-aware experience.

I've had this in my mind as an idea or concept for some time now, but I do not know it as Direct Experience - which your description above helped to make even more clear to me. It's much clearer that I do Not Know this as an Experience.

Oh, and now we're definitely on the same page in terms of what we're talking about when we say "experience."

Now, let's make sure that I'm using the correct concept for color and image:
What is the AE of ‘bird’?
The AE (Actual Direct/RAW Experience) of 'bird' is THOUGHT! 'bird' is a [Label] and a Label is a Thought! As in AE of Image, where Red is a Label/Thought.
I don’t quite understand what you are saying here. A thought is not AE of image. A thought is AE of thought. There are no ‘images’. The label ‘image’ is concession used until it is clear that there are no images…only AE of colour.
Is this clear?
You had also said before:
‘Looking’ is just plain looking at actual/direct experience (AE), which is simply colour (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment.

You are looking at the raw experience of AE and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience.


This is made me think color and image were interchangeable:
(AE), which is simply colour (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment.

"Image" to me means: an optical representation of a real object. As a photographic image or painting of a bird. Also, to me, the word "BIRD" is a label but a Mental Image is a Label as well. - I can have a Word in my mind (Label) but I can also have a Mental Image/Picture of a Bird. Both are labels/Overlays.

I was using color and image interchangeably because to me, an image is a group of colors. A digital "image" is made of many colored pixels arranged together, which then looks like a "thing" or a "something" which is labeled "bird."

If you look at an image of a bird on your phone or computer screen, and get your eye really close, all you see is a numch of pixels side by side. It looks like a blob of different colors, and although it's still an image, it doesn't look like a bird at all...

I may be overthinking this though.

Is "image" something different than "color" then?


A definition is a thought, so what I wrote actually points to Thought.

Yes, it is the content of the thought ‘mind’. “The mind is a container of thoughts” is the thought. The ensuing thoughts of what that means is the content. The content of thought is simply more thought, and the content of all thought is fantasy.

I am very clear on this now. The difference between AE and Thought, Fantasy, Stories (verbal and mental images and mental movies), any Overlay to the Raw Experience (AE).

Now, "belief" is just a Story or Thought, correct?


Okay, let’s make sure it is clear by doing the following exercise. I would like you to try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.


Perfect. I will do the exercise today and report back tonight!

I am really excited about this process Kay! I feel that I'm moving forward in the right direction now. Of course this is not accurate language.. I am not "moving" in any direction! I am not doing anything! and it'll be great when I'm living this instead of believing it!

Thank you Kate!

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:34 am

Hello Ray,
"Image" to me means: an optical representation of a real object. As a photographic image or painting of a bird. Also, to me, the word "BIRD" is a label but a Mental Image is a Label as well. - I can have a Word in my mind (Label) but I can also have a Mental Image/Picture of a Bird. Both are labels/Overlays.
Ray…once again...a lovely story about optical representations! It has nothing to do with AE or this exploration.

The label ‘bird’ is a thought. Do you actually see the letters that make up the label ‘bird’ as a mental image…or does the label/thought ‘bird’ in it’s totality just appear without any letters appearing as mental images? Just like all the thoughts that went into writing the above? Did you see all those thoughts above as written letters as a mental image? If you did, it would have taken you a long time to write it!

You are overthinking this and making it complicated. Whatever you think you think, is a thought no matter if it is labelled as a label or as a thought...or not. If the use of 'label' and 'thought' is confusing you...then we will just refer to labels as thoughts in future.
I was using color and image interchangeably because to me, an image is a group of colors. A digital "image" is made of many colored pixels arranged together, which then looks like a "thing" or a "something" which is labeled "bird."
Please read what I wrote...and take it in. The use of image is used at the beginning as a concession to help people to see that ALL images are simply AE of colour. There are no such things as images. Images is just another term used to describe objects. Is the image (object) ‘apple’ known, or is it simply AE of colour? If something isn't clear, then the term 'image' will be used to ensure clarity. I am not interested in discussing or debating nitty gritty stuff. I know I am clear about there being no separate and have been guiding others to this realisation for many years.
If you look at an image of a bird on your phone or computer screen, and get your eye really close, all you see is a numch of pixels side by side. It looks like a blob of different colors, and although it's still an image, it doesn't look like a bird at all..
What has what you wrote got to do with AE?
Now, "belief" is just a Story or Thought, correct?
You tell me. What does ‘belief’ point to? Does it point to sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation or thought?
I am really excited about this process Kay! I feel that I'm moving forward in the right direction now. Of course this is not accurate language.. I am not "moving" in any direction! I am not doing anything! and it'll be great when I'm living this instead of believing it!
Where exactly is this "I" that will be "living this instead of believing it"? Life doesn't change...it goes on exactly as it is now...including the idea of an "I". The only difference is that the "I" is seen for what it is ....a story, an illusion...as the seeming character "I" is seen for what it is ie it is perceived differently and is not identified with. But this non-identification is not set in concrete once the separate self has been seen through. There is a period of time, after the realisation, where identification still happens and then clarity appears...it is called yo-yoing. There is no time frame for when this yo-yoing ends...it is different for everyone. The core belief of a separate self is seen through, however there are other beliefs and patterns that also have to be worked through before this yo-yoing ends and a deep knowing sets in that you are not the separate self that seemingly appears.

It is only through the perception change that it is seen that even though everything is the same...everything is totally different. The seeing is described by many as quite ordinary...because it is. There is no "living this'. I don't want to rain on your parade, but unless I reign in your expectations...then when the realisation happens, and it can be very subtle, you will not 'accept' it because of its ordinariness.

Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:41 am

Kay.

I'm sorry - I'm a dumb ass.

After my last post, I did the Labeling Exercise you told me to do and all those questions were answered by it.

I understood the simplicity of the labels you told me to use: simply colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

I went to the park and kept labeling everything I saw. It got simpler and simpler because at first I'd catch some labels like "texture" and I'd say: that's a label. It's just color. Also, opinions, decisions, emotions, feelings... past, future = "thought."

At the end I was labeling anything and everything in front of me with the correct labels.

I also saw how color, or sound triggered thought.

Anyway, you are completely right, I was overthinking it sometimes, but doing the labeling exercise set me right.

Ask me anything if you want to make sure I'm straight.

Here are some examples of me sitting calmly and doing the exercise, as opposed to when I was walking in the park and doing the exercise rapid fire:

1. Sitting on the sofa:
Seeing sofa, table, back yard: color
Sound of A/C: sound
Dog on lap: sensation
Breath in and out: sensation
Pressure of dog on lap and sofa under the body: sensation
Relaxed feeling: thought

2. Read a sign.
Letters: color.
White background of letters: color
Meaning/interpretation of words: thought
Conclusions about the meaning: thought

3. Petting my dog:
Petting dog: sensation
Looking at dog: color
Softness of fur: sensation
Sound of hand moving against fur: sound
Thought "Good dog": thought

4. Cold glass of water:
Cool liquid against warm mouth: sensation
Indistinguishable taste: taste
"Mmmmm this is good, refreshing water": thought

I should not have posted before I did the exercise, but I wanted to let you know that I got your post, and I was going to work it.

I will keep my commentary and questions to myself and follow the process. I do not doubt your experience or skill and I don't want to waste your time at all.

If you still need me to answer your last questions I will.

Sorry for my stupidity sometimes.

Thanks!

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:51 am

Oh, also.

I have thick skin.

You can hit me hard to keep me straight. I can take it.

This is the most important thing for me. I'm all in.

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:17 am

Hello Ray,

There is no need to apologise. There is no stupidity happening either. I understand that excited enthusiasm arises and that is okay. Sometimes it just gets in the road of reading my posts thoroughly, and doing the exercises thoroughly, but I will rein it in if it gets to be over the top.

Terrific examples of breaking down activities etc into AE! Keep it up! You can also do this with emotions, which is a good thing to start to learn to breakdown into AE as well. Keep doing this exercise for a few more days, so that AE becomes crystal clear.

Okay, here is an exercise which points out the difference between actual experience and content of thought. Thoughts either point to AE or they point to thoughts about thought. Thought, in and of itself, does not contain any experience, otherwise you would be able to taste the word ‘sweet’ and feel the word ‘hot’ and hear thunder when the word ‘thunder’ appeared!

There are two types of thoughts:
#1 Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
#2 Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just a mental image of a cup?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

Now let’s look at the 'word' thought “here is a cup”
Can a 'real' cup be found in the thought itself?

"Here is a cup" is the thought; the ensuing thoughts of what a cup is and does, what it is made from etc are the content of that thought. What do those thoughts point to exactly? Do they point to colour, taste, smell, sensation or sound? Or do they simply point to actual experience of thought and thought only?

So thoughts and mental images are actual experience only as arising thoughts (words and mental image), their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about, what they are pointing to (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about, what it is pointing to) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.


Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:16 am

Very cool.

I'll work on this and check in daily and tell you how it's going.

Peace.

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:55 am

I forgot to answer your questions:

"Here is a cup" is the thought; the ensuing thoughts of what a cup is and does, what it is made from etc are the content of that thought. What do those thoughts point to exactly? Do they point to colour, taste, smell, sensation or sound? Or do they simply point to actual experience of thought and thought only?

So thoughts and mental images are actual experience only as arising thoughts (words and mental image), their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about, what they are pointing to (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?


I see it.

"Here is a cup" points to AE of thought and thought only.

The AE of Thought is thought because a thought exists as a thought. The content/story (or following/supporting thoughts) are thoughts of thoughts. This content does not exist as Actual Raw Experience.

The AE of the cup = color. The Story about the cup is AE of Thought. The stories are fantasy since they don't exist in AE.

Just a few minutes ago, I noticed my guitar in my room and the thought arose: "I haven't played my guitar in a few days." I saw color (the guitar) which triggered the thought "I haven't played my guitar in a few days."

I also saw this: My daughter was talking to me...
My daughter's body = color
Sound coming out her mouth = sound
Words interpreted into language = thought
Some words triggered an emotional reaction = thought
Noticed my body position, pressure etc = sensation

...

About the "living this instead of believing it":
Where exactly is this "I" that will be "living this instead of believing it"? Life doesn't change...it goes on exactly as it is now...including the idea of an "I". The only difference is that the "I" is seen for what it is ....a story, an illusion...as the seeming character "I" is seen for what it is ie it is perceived differently and is not identified with. But this non-identification is not set in concrete once the separate self has been seen through. There is a period of time, after the realisation, where identification still happens and then clarity appears...it is called yo-yoing. There is no time frame for when this yo-yoing ends...it is different for everyone. The core belief of a separate self is seen through, however there are other beliefs and patterns that also have to be worked through before this yo-yoing ends and a deep knowing sets in that you are not the separate self that seemingly appears.

I can't express myself in the correct language right now.

I believe you that "I" don't exist, but until I'm really "there" my language will be all wrong. All those "my" and "I's" etc.

But your explanation makes perfect sense and I thank you for sharing it. Keep the info coming!

'll keep you posted about the exercise durinf the next few days.

Thank you 😎👍🏼

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:00 am

One last thing for tonight...

I just saw that in another post it says "Thank you Kate!"

That's a typo from the auto-complete.

My bad Kay.

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Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:51 am

Hello Ray,
The AE of Thought is thought because a thought exists as a thought. The content/story (or following/supporting thoughts) are thoughts of thoughts. This content does not exist as Actual Raw Experience.
The AE of the cup = color. The Story about the cup is AE of Thought. The stories are fantasy since they don't exist in AE.
Spot on! Lovely!
Just a few minutes ago, I noticed my guitar in my room and the thought arose: "I haven't played my guitar in a few days." I saw color (the guitar) which triggered the thought "I haven't played my guitar in a few days."
Without a thought inferring that seeing colour triggers another thought “I haven’t played my guitar in a few days”…how would it be known?

For something to trigger something else is the belief in cause and effect, and the belief in object/subject split. We will look at this later on.
I also saw this: My daughter was talking to me...
My daughter's body = color
Sound coming out her mouth = sound
Words interpreted into language = thought
Some words triggered an emotional reaction = thought
Noticed my body position, pressure etc = sensation
Nice, Ray! And when you saw your daughter as simply colour, sound and thought…how did that make you feel?
I can't express myself in the correct language right now.
I realise you are expressing yourself, however, I am staying on target and questioning you everytime you say “I”. There is another way of framing it, but it’s not important to do so. But it is my job to keep you on track 
I just saw that in another post it says "Thank you Kate!"
That's a typo from the auto-complete.
No worries, Ray. There is no one here to be offended by that typo! ;) :)

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

Looking for the gap is a way to slow the thoughts, as the objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go.


Could you find a thinker of thought between the gaps?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Rayd8
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:01 am

Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:27 pm

Hey Kay,

Without a thought inferring that seeing colour triggers another thought “I haven’t played my guitar in a few days”…how would it be known?

For something to trigger something else is the belief in cause and effect, and the belief in object/subject split. We will look at this later on.

Yep. There is a lot I have to unlearn. My cup is quite full!

There is the belief/thought that color/images or "the environment" [label/thought] triggers an "emotional reaction" [thought] in the observer [thought]. All of this is a story [thought].

The better way to express that is: There is Color [guitar] and there is verbal thought: "I haven’t played my guitar in a few days” since there is no "I" to be triggered in any way.

And when you saw your daughter as simply colour, sound and thought…how did that make you feel?


There was no difference between [my daughter] and [the background] regarding color. Words [thought] were being interpreted... There was a calmness about the "experience." A simplicity...

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go.

Could you find a thinker of thought between the gaps?


Perfect. Another post will be up tonight with the results of the exercise.

Thanks!

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Rayd8
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:01 am

Re: Long time seeker - No-one-wannabe

Postby Rayd8 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:10 am

Hey Kay,

So, I meditated watching the breath, noticing thoughts arise and disppear ("Thinking" is happening right now).

I sat twice but also kept noticing thoughts throughout the day.

Could you find a thinker of thought between the gaps?


There is no "thinker" to be found anywhere in AE. There is only thought. When looked for, it is nowhere in Actual Raw Experience. This usually brings a "strange feeling" [thought] even chills sometimes.

When it could not be found, the thought came: But where is this individual, "I", thinker, doer? "It's been there all my life!" Cannot be found.

When the image of the body is seen, a sense of "being", "I", on individuality rose up. Also when breathing is noticed - when the chest goes up and down, and especially when the image in front of the mirror appears. In these instances, the sense of individuality rises strong, but when watching thoughts and specially between thoughts, the "I" [thought] is not found.

There is a "scene" like a movie screen. "Things" [color] are there on the screen, sensations are felt, thoughts arise and subside, like waves, like clouds, but an individual, doer cannot be found.

I also noticed an urge to "Understand" [thought] everything in the screen, but when this happens, "I" do the Labelling Exercise: sensation, smell, color, sound, taste, thought, and the urge to understand fades out quickly.

For example: The thought arose: "I'm hungry," but immediately it was replaced with: [sensation] and "hunger" became [sensation].

But, when attention is brought to the body - the hands, for example, the "I" thought comes on strong.

I also noticed something like a "nervous tick" where the hand would "unconsciously" touch the face - usually the chin and this sensation would strengthen the "I" thought. Kinda like reminding: "There is a body here. Don't forget!" This was not a "language thought" but more like a subtle thought - not very obvious, but noticeable.

I also noticed much less "reaction" to language (when spoken to) and less thoughts ABOUT the scene/color than usual. If my daughter used annoying language "directed towards Ray," most of the time, it wouldn't create a reaction/thought.

The experience was much more peaceful today while doing the exercises all day long.

The exercise will be continued today and tomorrow - both sitting and during normal activities. I will keep you posted.

Peace.


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