‘No doer of the deed is found...’

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River1
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby River1 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:47 pm

At first, I was experiencing tension, and inability to drop into or stay focused on the exercise.
As I’m trying to do the exercise, I can’t make sense of it. I feel a bit confused. I can’t feel into the sense of self because I can’t find it. It’s not there in my chest, like I said in my previous post. There isn’t something to settle my awareness on in order to investigate it.
There are a lot of thoughts in the form of questions, and sensations in the body.
When I try to locate the sense of self there is a thought saying ‘in the chest’, or ‘down the front of the body’. When I am aware of sensations in these areas, the sense of self doesn’t seem to reside there.
So I bring attention to the thoughts themselves. And then a dropping happens, and there is a sense of ease. The sense of self cannot exist without thought!

And so, in answer to your questions:
No, I can’t find it’s location
It doesn’t have size or shape
It doesn’t say anything, or have characteristics.....because it isn’t there.....only thoughts about it. The sense of self seems to exist only in thought.

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:11 am

Well done, Sara, good honest investigating there
I can’t feel into the sense of self because I can’t find it. It’s not there in my chest, like I said in my previous post. There isn’t something to settle my awareness on in order to investigate it.
excellent. lovely
Many experience the ‘me’ as being centred in the head.

What I would like you to do is imagine a small apple centred in the head.
Before the apple disappears….

…imagine a canary centred in the head, tweeting away.
Before, the canary flies off (weird huh?)….
…imagine a 'me' centred in the head.
Stay with it…

…imagine it is completely transparent. See straight through it…
…imagine there not seeming to be a 'me' in the head anymore.

Give it a go, see what happens.
xx

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River1
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby River1 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:53 pm

It's funny! When I imagine an apple, a canary, it seems obvious that it is imaginary - I don't believe there is actually an apple, or a bird there. The is an image. I can't feel it. It isn't there in any sense other than thought. So when I then imagine 'me' there, I find myself laughing, that it is no more in the centre of my head than the apple or the canary.
I find it hard to stay with, in order to do the part where you ask me to imagine it's transparent because there isn't an image there to do that with.

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:26 pm

Hi
I'm happy with your answer!

Lie on your back and relax. Have a look at the ceiling.
There is thought to be a distance between that what is thought to be known as ‘body’ and that what is labelled ‘ceiling’.

Close your eyes. Now focus on the space between body and ceiling.
Take your time, breathe in and out and simply look. Keep the eyes shut.
What do you notice?
Is there a body? Is there a ceiling? Is there a distance?

xx

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River1
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby River1 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:32 pm

With eyes closed, lying on the bed, I am aware of sensations, and of images (thoughts) of the room. In the image, there is a distinct body, a ceiling, a space between them. In direct experience there is no distance - I can't feel it, see it, taste, smell, hear it. All I know is sensations and thoughts. Sensations of pressure are thought about as 'I am lying on', and sensations of the air on face, hands, as 'there is space around me', but in direct experience I only know the sensations themselves and the rest is thought.

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:08 pm

Good
Tomorrow, if you can, go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

xx

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River1
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby River1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:12 pm

No inside or outside - a movement, a flow of life. What I know directly is sensations, sounds, images, which don't themselves have a 'boundary'. The wind is not 'out there', the feeling of the wind on my face is not happening `outside`. I simply know the sensations of coolness and movement. Sound is not 'here' or 'there', only thought tells me it 'comes from over there'.
There is no witness - awareness itself is also part of that movement, not separate from the rest of experience - I can't find anything outside of it.
There isn't anything which is not just happening. everything is part of the flow.

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:25 pm

How was it to notice that?

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River1
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby River1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:14 pm

At the moment of realising this, there is a softening into experience, and this contrasts to the tension that can be present, particularly around my eyes and my chest. I see this happen over and over, tension and softening

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:40 am

And how are things emotionally?

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River1
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby River1 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:29 pm

In the moments of softening, opening, the emotional experience is a positive one.
However, in general, particularly this last week, I have also been experiencing an undertone of confusion, at times feeling a bit resistant, and some quite strong fear responses coming up in my dreams.

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:18 pm

That's interesting. Maybe we'll need to revisit the fear, then?

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:11 pm

Thinking about you and the fear that's there - can you tell me more about it? xx

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River1
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby River1 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:52 pm

Hi Prabhakari,

Sometimes, before the moments of opening into experience which feel positive, there is a feeling of being on unsteady ground, a sense of loosing footing, which is confusing, and that seems to be happening more at the moment.

Yesterday I sat by the burial mound at Adhisthana, and there was a moment of realising the difference between responding to concepts/thoughts about experience rather than bare experience. I reflected on the concept of death. What would happen if I sat here, without a story about death? How would experience make sense? I also realised that there is no inherent meaning. And so, there is some fear perhaps, that experience won’t make sense if ‘I’ am not structuring it through thought, and that my emotional responses will be confused.

However, when I take this from being thoughts, and explore my experience directly, these fears don’t have foundation. When I connect with bare experience there is clarity, there is responsiveness, and there is positive emotion.

Sara x

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Seamist
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Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’

Postby Seamist » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:17 am

Hi Sara
Thanks for explaining that more fully.

Much of what you say resonates with my own experience, particularly when you say
there is a feeling of being on unsteady ground, a sense of loosing footing
.
And so,there is some fear perhaps, that experience won’t make sense if ‘I’ am not structuring it through thought, and that my emotional responses will be confused.
. I understand this, but actually life does continue, and we do manage to keep functioning. It's just that much that turns out to be extraneous and unnecessary falls away. Things are just much simpler.

Remember that all that happens is that a false view is seen through - that you never did have a self in the way you thought you did. It's like realising that Santa Claus doesn't exist!

Are you on retreat at the moment? I suggest you just be with your current experience for a while, let it continue to unfold. If you can, get out for a walk - I found Oyster Hill very helpful myself. Feeling ungrounded is common at this point (and will pass) - but in the meantime, do what you can to keep yourself grounded and in your body. Walk, stamp your feet, that sort of thing.
sending love
Prabhakari


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