Seeing through me

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:08 pm

Sweet :)
Can you tell me, what is the biggest difference from before we started this conversation? What has changed and what hasn’t?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Wed May 01, 2019 8:08 pm

Can you tell me, what is the biggest difference from before we started this conversation?
The openness has grown a lot. It has taken the place of what used to be the sense of me.

When I look for myself there is this openess or empty space.

Also, I’m not as fearful as I was earlier. Most thoughts or sensations may be thought/felt without fear taking over.

I’m having a growing sense of not having any control over what’s being done. It’s just the way it happens. And it feels like freedom.
What has changed and what hasn’t?
The sense of myself has changed.

Content of thoughts doesn't feel so important anymore. This makes me more present in the now. And it mostly takes 'the edge off' fear.

My ‘gut feeling’ of free will has changed.

I feel more free than earlier.

I dont think anything else has changed.
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?
It is very clear the the sense of self is just content of thought and therefore ‘made up’.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Thu May 02, 2019 1:53 pm

Wonderful, these changes are nice confirmations that shift is happening.
Is there any doubt at all?
If not, are you ready for the final questions?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Thu May 02, 2019 7:43 pm

There is definitely a shift happening.

Ok, give me the final questions.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Thu May 02, 2019 8:41 pm

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it ufully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready. Take Your time :)

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Sat May 04, 2019 10:12 pm

Just checking in today, I will answer all of the questions soon.

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Sun May 05, 2019 9:50 pm

Just checking in today also. I’m not stressed about the final questions, just not ready to answer yet.

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Mon May 06, 2019 9:44 pm

Checking in again.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Mon May 06, 2019 10:36 pm

Hey again. Take your time. And meanwhile you can write about what you are noticing.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Tue May 07, 2019 9:13 am

Ok, Ill write a little about what I'm noticing.
I'm noticing that the sense of separation between me and the world is beginning to vanish. It seems like it
is beginning to vanish.
I'm noticing that every thought can be met with compassion.
I'm still experiencing a subject/object-world - there is a sense of being a subject still and there is a sense of there being
objects apart from the subject, even though it doesnt feel like the old me anymore.
I'm noticing that the body is relaxing when 'I' let go of efforts to control what 'I' do.
I'm noticing that I don't need to sit meditating by myself to feel calm and free - its there all of the time.
I'm noticing 'my' subject experience much more when I'm not lost in thought so much.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Wed May 08, 2019 1:56 pm

Beautiful :)

Can you look up closely at the sense of separation, or as you call it being a subject. Is that sensation what you are? Where precisely is that sense of separattion and how do you know it’s the sense of separateness not just a contraction?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Fri May 10, 2019 9:04 pm

I don’t feel like ‘myself’ anymore. Can’t find myself when I look for an l. But more than a year ago I experienced this suddenly and much more clearly. It lasted for almost three days.
I think I’m waiting for this experience to come back. I know there is ‘more’ and so I wait for it to return. I think that I have clearly seen no-self. The perception of me and the world is changed. It’s just that the the current experience is not of the same magnitude.

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Sat May 11, 2019 9:41 am

I will answer the final questions later today.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby Ilona » Sat May 11, 2019 1:46 pm

Thank you for honesty.
You had an experience and want it back. But it’s gone. It is not going to come back. Instead, there is a fresh experience here now. Wanting something to come back from the past is taking away from being present to what is. Can you see that? Can you let go of seeking a state? States come and go, knowing remains. There is no permanent state, there is no final feeling and no last insight. It’s a flow, free flow.

Looking forward to your answers.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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HakanJson
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Re: Seeing through me

Postby HakanJson » Sat May 11, 2019 7:23 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No. I can see and experience that there is no self. I still mostly somehow feel like a subject/apart from the world, but I think this is mostly a habitual thing, it is vanishing. In the big openness - which I experienced today again - there is no self and no separation in the direct experience.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It is content of thinking and mental images. I think the sense of I is mostly created by parents and other people, but I'm not sure. Also perhaps as a defense / safety mechanism to protect the body.
Regardless how it starts, thoughts communicate that there is an I. And the sense of I seems to partly also be body sensations, mostly in or around the face.
When this is seen/recognized the sense of I begins to lose its grip. And in its place there is an openness/emptiness/nothingness emerging. And a sense of relief, freedom and joy - often there is a totally new and unexpected laughter which may continue for several minutes. In the 'big openness' there aren't really any questions - it is in itself 'enough' as it is and there is a great appreciation for life.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels like freedom, peace, joy and a great appreciation of life. It feels like a great open space. It feels like nothing needs to be done - just being is enough. Sometimes it feels like I'm disillusioned - the dreams were just dreams and things will not be better in the future, this is all there is. Sometimes it feels like my world has shrinked a lot - from 'living my life' or 'living in a big world' to just this subjective experience.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The first encounter with no-self was prior to coming here, I understand this now. So, although no-self has deepened A LOT during my time at LU, it was Douglas Harding and his headless way that pushed me over. Actually the first experiment at the headless way site, where you point towards your own face/eyes. Having said that, I have had so much good help here at LU and I'm so very happy for this.
5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
There is probably no free will at all. Without a self and with thoughts just arising whenever they wish I can't see that there can be - even though it still often feels like I'm a doer/controller.
6) Anything to add?
Stacy is a fantastic guide, I'm so happy for her help. Also you, Ilona, of course. If you want me to try guiding people to see no self, I will happily try this.


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