hi Dacre, way home this way...

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dacre
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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:54 pm

What do you mean that all thoughts are about real or unreal but never THE real? I'll just clarify to make sure I understand you properly. Real is like chair or sky. Real things. Unreal is like Santa Claus or Batman, unreal, fictional things. But ALL are thoughts. Not things, not real, words and thoughts making up stories. Stories about me or you or them or us...
If this is what you mean then no, they don't have to be taken seriously. No thoughts have to be taken seriously. No thoughts have to dictate reality and cause psychological suffering. "Can the unreal be a problem?" No!
Future, past, me, them...it's the 'thoughts' of them that cause the horrible sensations in the body and the awful suffering in the mind. Not Reality itself. And even if they are taken seriously out of habit. THAT doesn't have to be taken seriously, but seen instead as thought story. Not the REAL.
My mind is non-stop commentary. Absolutely non-stop! Even as I am writing this. But it is not really real in the same way that just Being here is real, the room is real, typing, etc. Life lifeing, I think you say. So the worried voice would not be missed, the me would not be missed. It would be such relief without them! Without these concepts the default position is Now. As it ever was. Now with all its feelings, thoughts, sensations but not taken seriously, that is, formulated into a story of my life and the need to fix it. My life is a story, it arises, it's there, but it is fiction. The me is an idea given to me in childhood which I believed all my life. But it is not real is it? A concept is a concept. Not reality. Freedom from suffering is seeing and living that. Such thoughts also have no actual substance and don't even exist if you don't believe them. What is real will exist whether believed in or not. 'I' is not like that. So "I" am not here now and was never here. Except as a believed in concept. Maybe not even that..Just an occasional idea in the mind.
The end of it I suppose, is that "me" is not even here. Only living..

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Ilona
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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:07 pm

The end of is when it's seen that there never was an I to start with.
Now look up into the past, like a childhood memory and see if there is an I in there, then go few year into the future and see if the future me is there.

Keep talking. You are getting through nicely.
Is there a gate?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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dacre
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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:00 pm

A childhood memory: falling over as a child and breaking arm, strange sensations of numbness and pain signals to/from brain, thoughts arising to get help, driving to hospital, thoughts/complaints about pain, general anaesthetic, morphine, weird sensations, happiness to leave hospital. Talking. No I involved in any of this just sensation and a reaction to it. No I needed to make it all happen. Stories of 'I' did this or that came later but not at the time of intense or strange sensations and circumstances.
"go few years into the future and see if the future me is there". From my experience the me is always in the future. The future is usually some story about me or what I will do or not do. But it's all happening in the present. Very ephemeral and changeable. It's a story that arises automatically. I don't make it happen. So there is no I that is doing anything now. And as it is always now. Then also there is no I in the future. Also the I in thought is not real, but a thought.
"Is there a gate?" If there is no actual I except as a thought, then passing through the "gate" is just seeing this. But since this was ALWAYS the case, then there is no gate. It's just seeing the truth of what is and what always was. There's no enlightenment, nothing tangible to find. Only something to lose, an imagined I who thought it was in control, but was only ever a thought. And as a thought it has no actual power. It can appear to have power if believed in but in reality it is harmless, powerless, just a word or idea. It doesn't matter if it is there or not.
It's recently become clearer that I have spent years trying to figure this out mentally. When ultimately it's a non-problem. If I can see there is no REAL I here and never was, then WHO can understand and WHAT? Thought can never get it. Thought churns over and over trying to 'get it'. But if it's not in thought then the answer can't be there. There's nothing to get, And nowhere to go. Only here. Thought doesn't like this at all but its truth. And truth isn't about mental knowledge.

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:59 pm

There a you in any shape or form in reality?

How does it feel to see this?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:35 pm

"There a you in any shape or form in reality?"
There is no me in any shape or form in reality. There can be a thought I in a story told about "me". But the thought I doesn't refer to anything at all. It's just a thought. It refers to nothing. One bit of story referring to another bit. No I at all in reality.
"How does it feel to see this?"
I feel sort of lighter. Also like there is just one reality or feeling of spaciousness, and no I apart from it.

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:11 pm

That's so delightful to hear.
:) I see you are through, let's get you answer a few last questions.

How would you explain, describe this illusion to somebody interested, but not familiar with it?
What was that last thing that made you look and see?
Truth realized will set you free.
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dacre
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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:27 pm

At a very young age we are told that our body and thoughts are ours. We are given a name and identity. And are led to believe that this identity is in control and is responsible for everything we do. It is an identity solely in thought but it can lead to thought based stories of great tragedy or delight. But LOOK directly at it. The "I" is a thought only, it does not refer to anything in reality. It does not exist in reality. Only as a thought. And you can't control your thoughts ultimately, they just appear out of nowhere with no author. You can see this just by observation or even better, with the help of someone who has seen through the illusion. The answer to the great yearning of life for fulfillment and satisfaction is not in the mind. It is right here and now, and in seeing through the false apparent reality of the controller me. Without that, life flows more easily, freely, and is free of psychological suffering, through apparent good times or bad. In essence, "you" are not a problem and never were, there is nothing wrong with you. The you that you think you are, you're not. What you are is nameless. You could call it life itself, or existence or presence or awareness, or nothing. You are already free. It is just a matter of seeing through the thought illusion that makes you think you are in bondage. The bondage is not real. Just a story. You are not a story.
"What was the last thing that made you look and see?"
It was kind of a matter of already knowing it but still trying to use the mind to figure it out and just stopping that. Another thing was reading another post just recently on this site about how the I is no more real than the tooth fairy or Santa. The I was in the same league as them. Not real. Also just sitting down and looking directly for myself, at thoughts, at the space or nothing they arise in, at reality as it actually is.

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:07 pm

Perfect.
Let it settle.. We will speak tomorrow.

I'm so happy for you.
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby Ilona » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:15 am

How is life feeling today?

Is there any doubt at all?
Love!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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dacre
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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:06 pm

Ilona, there is no doubt at all about this, it's clear, which feels good. But the background mood here is low or flat, and the physical body feels heavy and a bit unwell, which is all normal for me.
I will be away from the computer for two days so I want to leave it a little while longer and then check in again on Friday.
Thanks, Dacre.

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:14 pm

Hi Ilona, I have been very busy and not so much sleep the last couple of days, the usual light depression and physical illness. But there are differences. I notice less of a boundary between the body/mind and the environment I'm in. A subtle feeling that I am the awareness or space outside of me too, which gives a feeling of solidity and security (and love?).. This is in stark contrast to the diffuseness and fear and confusion that this situation engendered 20 years ago or so. A kind of full presence rather than a void or absence. Someone else might use these concepts differently but I hope I'm getting across what I mean.
More observations:
Much less thinking (ie. worrying), about the future.
Basically the same mild depression, anxiety and fatigue, which fluctuates, as it has done for 30 years. The mind is as noisy as ever, like a radio on all the time, sometimes in the foreground, sometimes in the background. The I story is going on as usual, but the difference is that it is as if floating in the air in and around the body, like it has nothing or little to do with me but just goes on from decades of habit and conditioning, like stuck in a loop..
I've also realised that if I just look at the bad feelings that arise WITHOUT the story, the 'I' story, then they dissolve. With the believed in story they go on for hours or days.. but without the story, that is, seeing the story as a story, just thoughts, not real, then the feelings and sensations in the body hang around for a much shorter time. So there is more freedom in that...more ease, more space, more peace.
So everything is the same except for these subtle differences. They are subtle but distinct. I get the feeling they have a life of their own, and will deepen or expand over time....... to reveal the actual timelessness that is already here and now, you could say... which is kind of intuited but not really directly seen yet.
I feel like there is more of a relaxing into Being, and some insights... If the story is not real then we are never REALLY caught up in it. We are free, but dreaming we're not. The story is wafer thin when looked at directly but unobserved appears so full and important. We seem to get lost but never really leave our true 'home'.
Here, it's a bit like the self is still believed in, but in a very detached way. There is a play-acting of seriousness going on rather than an actual real life tragedy. The whole world drama is like a vast movement and field of intertwining energies. One movement appearing as many, happening on its own.
'My' life is happening on its own. Things just are as they are without needing to label everything in the mind. "I" can't do a thing about it anyway, except maybe look at reality, SEE clearly, as is happening...
For example, it's not "my" depression, just a label for thoughts and sensations arising in a body and mind. Nothing is 'wrong' ultimately with 'me' or my life.
This afternoon I was walking along a suburban footpath looking at the shops and the clouds and the sky and the people, and there was a feeling of the possibility of the joy of just Being, of just simply existing, of existence itself.
The mind still occasionally wants to try to figure this out. But I cannot understand this. I is a piece of content in the context of all This. I am, if anything, what the mind and body arise in, timeless, spaceless, aware, alive, uncaused happiness or peace. Or name it whatever you want, the naming or concepts don't matter at all. They're irrelevant.
Finally, I have to say that there is less interest in the mind stories generally and in the seeking of happiness there. Being or spirit or peace already is here, what I am. It's pretty foggy at times but I think the clouds are slowly clearing.. In any case, when it's seen that the stories and the me aren't real, it doesn't matter what is here and what is not. No I (for real), no problem.

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:13 pm

Just saw clearly how thoughts, feelings, stories (appearances, fictions), can't affect REALITY, here, now. At all. Nice.

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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby Ilona » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:34 pm

Welcome home, dacre.

Isn't that most amazing, we never have left. And yet it feel so good to return.

Your description is very clear. Loved reading it. And I resonate with how you see.
Nice story :)

Are you on Facebook? If so, friend me and I'll invite you to fb unleashed. You can also use the new section on this forum :)

Looking forward to meet you :) its was a pleasure to work with you. Thank you.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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dacre
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Re: hi Dacre, way home this way...

Postby dacre » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:07 pm

Thank you so much Ilona, for your wonderfully clear pointers and questions, and your lovely nature. What a great service you provide. Short and to the point. So simple! I enjoyed it.
I don't think I am on Facebook but will join and friend you.. Looking forward to it. Thank you once again..
Dacre.


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