LL Curtis - This is your thread

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:03 pm

The body, sensations, thought, and anything else in perception, is here in real time, and the loralee thought is like an overlay.

I have moments (and in to a certain degree now) where there is a seeing that when "I" am looking at something, that I am not looking through the eyes of the Loralee story. It is absent of her. Like looking through empty eyes. (But this is tricky to me because something still seems to be taking credit or note of it, even if it seems sanitized of the story.)

As far as feeling, it is like an absence of feeling, but yet at the same time - or to be more clear, what ever is being felt isn't being personalized. It is just there like the furniture that is there. The body has this quality as well. It is in the view.

This morning, there appeared to be a collapse of the perceiver. But that was this morning and I need to forget about that. But I mention this because this isn't like that at all. There still seems to be a perceiver perceiving.

So the other day, (or was it yesterday) I am upside down right now...but when there were lots of emotions. When I saw that they were happening to no one, the energy was experienced directly. In fact, even the label of what it was fell away when not personalized.

The day before, (in one of those moments), there appeared to be a complete merging or communing of an emotion that had been labeled as "not evolved" or "not a good emotion to have" by societal and perhaps "spiritual" convention, and was experienced as LIFE - a gift given, which turned into pure joy and delight in the experiencing of it. Gratitude. you know.

This is past. I just post this in hope this well help you in seeing what needs to be seen through here.

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Ingen
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LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:17 pm

I actually think you have seen it - and now you have to learn to trust the seeing. This is not about reaching a certain "merged" state, it is only a tiny shift in perspective. Very unspectacular and utterly ordinary. I could be afraid that your love for drama makes you overlook it. ;)

I suggest: Instead of speculating, keep watching your thoughts.

Are you making your thoughts?
Do you know what your next thought is going to be?
Can there be two thoughts at the same time?
Can you think an uncaused thought?
Can you stop a thought in the middle?
Can a thought think?

Can the thought *I* think?

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:59 pm

This is funny! Yes, I see the love of the dramatic. And the desire to feel radically unleashed and alive - the love of diving into everything deeply and poetically. (As I am doing now!...ok, I'll stop.)

Please feel free to tell me anything you see.

I will answer your questions tomorrow or later tonight. I am catching on to the fact that we are on very different time zones. Sorry, it took me a while to catch on to that!

:)

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:54 am

So...no merging or communing huh?

Hm.

So Is there a forum like this one for Merging and Communing, Bliss and God?

HA!

Are you making your thoughts? No
Do you know what your next thought is going to be? No
Can there be two thoughts at the same time? No
Can you think an uncaused thought? No
Can you stop a thought in the middle? Yes.
Can a thought think? No
Can the thought *I* think? No


Ingen...In case we are done, thank you! This has truly been a riot!

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Ingen
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:47 am

Hi Loralee,

aren't most spiritual forums about Merging and Communing, Bliss and God? You picked the one which isn't ;)

The question if you are through or not is for you to answer. If you feel there are "sticky issues" that have to be clarified first, let me know. I can't see from here what is going on.

I'll give you our usual "confirmation" questions to answer. Take your time, answer at length. And if the slightest bit is in doubt, let's keep digging!

---------------

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who is very interested, but has never heard about this illusion.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:52 pm

Spiritual Seeker humor there.

Bad Joke I see.

:)

Yes, thank you! I get that I don't decide on this, and Thank God for that! (Ha Ha!)

I was assumptive about your saying that you thought I was "seeing it" and need to trust, and that we were winding down or maybe even done.

My PM to you about sticky places and doing The Work of Byron Katie with the woman here, was about doing TW with her after we are done. I should have been more clear. So, I apologize for this.

Honestly Ingen, I don't know shit about these forums. Really! I just joined FB like 3 months ago because it was necessary in order to participate fully in Scott Kiloby's group. If this gives you a clue how out of it I am...I haven't watched TV or read the news in 5-6 years. Honestly! I just lost my interest in all that for some reason.

So, as I am sure you have now gathered, this is new to me. I read that someone was libererated here and it seems within a flash of signing in, we started. I don't know what your complete role is, or what is appropriate to share or discuss with you, or what. All I know is that you have been amazingly generous with your time and I want to be respectful of that.

So, I am happy to use this venue to explore the "sticky-ness" with you. :) This will be great for the part of the self structure that is really private and inhibited at the moment, and doesn't want to be a pain in the ass.

Any suggestions on that before we proceed?

:)

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Ingen
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:40 pm

Hi Loralee,

wow, now I really managed to miscommunicate! I wanted to say "you have to decide if you are through", and said the opposite!! Well, who knows what it was good for. Maybe I should have formulated: You have to tell me if you think you are through, or if there are things you want to have clarified first.

About merging and bliss: Without you there is only world. You could call that merging, and it can feel blissful to know there is no self that has to control life...

TW is a good idea before and after gate.

I still suggest you answer the questions, unless you have something to get out of the way.

And you're welcome, it is a joy to walk through it with you!

:)

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:43 pm

Hey Ingen,

I don't know if you got my more specific example of where I see self-ing running on the PM. Let me know. It was around the experience the other morning and how identification with the story kicked in.

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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:29 pm

I looked for the message and it didn't send. Here it is:

To be more specific: The other morning when there was the experience of whatever that was...The mind came in quickly to claim it for its own. Like: "This is happening to me...I'm getting closer...how did I do that?...how do I get it back?", and so on. The underlying story being: I am special now, I did this, I accomplished this, now I am somebody valuable, and special. As mentioned before, it is like a thought swarm.

As I am looking at where I really see it kick in in all it's different ways, it is all around that feeling of inadequacy. Protecting and defending what it thinks it has, and trying to get what it thinks it wants or needs to in order to be an adequate or special someone.

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Ingen
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:29 pm

The other morning when whatever that was, was experienced. The story immediately came in to claim it. “I did it!, maybe I am getting closer, It may happen now, wow! That was cool.” The underlying beliefs. I am special, I am valuable, now I will be loved, heard, respected, regarded, safe, worthy.
Yes, that's the mechanism! It is even fun to watch the poor me, the wonderful me, the vulnerable me, the enlightened me being built. Sometimes in real time, sometimes afterwards.

Keep digging, watch the thoughts building imaginary selfs. How does it work when you get hungry, you drive a car, you decide to buy something? How is it if somebody is rude to you?

The mechanism how a caterpillar turns into a butterfly is so interesting. I didn't know that! Elisabet Sahtouris? I'll look her up.

The danger about this metamorphosis metaphor is that you might expect a real change. There is not going to be a change. The ego has never existed. We have to make peace with being caterpillars...

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:15 pm

Ok! Yea, I had quite a list going and didn't know if you wanted to see it all or not, and let me know if you do.

The body piece is great. Hadn't come to that yet, yea...

I see it so much as well when I look in the mirror, get ready to go out somewhere, the way I hold my body when I walk, deprive "myself" from eating something enjoyable because "I" may gain weight.... (have to stay skinny and sexy ya know!) Ha ha! (Just typing this, it is amazing to see the "I" that way!)

I will keep digging!

Do you want me to list what is seen, or just as a meditation?

On what you said about the *butterfly story. (I'm trying to keep it short) At first, it was a more creative and interesting attempt at descibing the flys at the picnic. But now you mention it, I see this in its own way. Even trying to see through the self is another back door in for that. The story: There will be a change. HUGE change. There wont be a self to hate, or even in some ways love, (the deep introspective poet) and be free of that.

*About the new butterfly story - See http: www.sahtouris.com.

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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:33 pm

wooow!

It was already free of that.

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Ingen
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LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:35 pm

Now, fasten your seatbelt.

Do you exist?

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:10 pm

This is soooo cool!

You as in "me", "I"?

Or...as anything at all?

In the meantime...

And, I'll problably get whaked for this, but I can't resist...(and it will be worth it!)

In the "perceptual zone", and while looking in the mirror, it was like, "How does this even exist!?" (so funny you'd ask about existing) Is this body just a thought?...Is all of this a thought!?

Then the mind..."should i say something or not, and ask Ingen...that is just indulging in the story addiction...well...you were aware of this so that counts...!"

So funny!


I'll stop.

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:26 pm

No!

It's not possible.

No. And I don't know how I know, exept by noticing that the space is devoid of anything, but yet everything is in.

And what came to me in a deep quiet way...more of a quiet knowingness...

Paradoxically, because I exist as no-thing, I exist as everything.

?


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