LL Curtis - This is your thread

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:39 pm

Hey, I just wanted to give you a heads up that I wont be posting until after your bedtime today. For some reason I am feeling quite (no drama here) fatigued. My head is swimming and trying to answer your questions with any kind of (I was going to say clarity...ha ha!) is a challenge at the moment. I don't want to waste your time on blabber. (Ha!...I caught that too!......aaaaaaa man! :)

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Ingen
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:50 pm

That is fine. You are doing great!!

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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:00 am

Ha! completely without your doing! Is that true?
No. If someone said..."Hey Loralee, look over here..." I'd look.


I exist. I know I do.
How do you know this?
The ability to be self aware...to reflect back upon myself and experience myself in a direct experiential way.

How does this happen? Sensations appear, then thoughts appear, labeling the sensation "reflecting back upon myself".


I may not understand the question correctly, but what It looks like.... for example just now, the heat came on. It just came on. It was experienced. The reflecting back on it was just that, reflecting back on an experience.

Can you describe this "me"? How do you experience "me" in direct experience?
There are preferences, sensations, and feelings that appear to not occur the same in another body or object.


... This is an abstract thought which doesn't come from direct experience. Does a baby speculate about how the world looks from another vantage point? NO. It learns to do that later in life. Batgirl was born at about 3 years of age. A baby knows only direct experience.


It took me a while, but I see what you mean.

I wake up and this body is everywhere I go.
Your body is everywhere where who goes?


I as the experiencer of it.

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:48 am

I may want to revise my last answer.

There just seems to be an "I" in a felt sense that is experiencing it. (The body). But then, like the smell, or seeing, or hearing the heat come on...the "I" thought comes in after. And the flavor of that "I" thought is the same flavor of "I" the experiencer.

Anyway...

This is probably abstract thought again. And it feels conceptual at the moment.

Thanks for listening!

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Ingen
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:16 am

About self as the experiencer of the body:
There just seems to be an "I" in a felt sense that is experiencing it. (The body). But then, like the smell, or seeing, or hearing the heat come on...the "I" thought comes in after. And the flavor of that "I" thought is the same flavor of "I" the experiencer.
Yes, yes, yes! You are right at the gate here!
Anyway...
This is probably abstract thought again. And it feels conceptual at the moment.
It was not abstract at all. Don't dismiss it!!

What is this "I" which pretends to be experiencing? Is it not just another thought popping up in a sequence of ocurring thoughts?

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:16 pm

It is funny you say that because I am noticing a tremendous reluctance, and doubts, fears, and questions of choice and readiness that I was actually going to ask you if it was appropriate for me to pose to you because this has been almost non-existent until now.

What do you suggest? Should this be addressed, or just plow forward?

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:26 pm

Never mind Ingen. (Unless you think it is necessary) This is all just that same flavor of Loralee.

I will respond to your question shortly.

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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:34 pm

We should of course address fear. Actually, I'd say "no fear, no awakening..."

Look at the fear. Invite it closer. It has a purpose. Fear "wants" to protect you. Don't try to get rid of it! Just look, even say "thank you" to it.

It is a feeling, arising. Look what fear is trying to protect. Look if there is something that would need protection.

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:21 pm

Thank you!

Quite a storm there for a bit.

Yea, I see it is just trying to protect "the experiencer". Experience doesn't need to be protected. It is already here - already arisen.

What is funny is that the majority of fear is around the fear of not seeing this deep enough and clear enough and that you'll say "that's it you are done!" and I didn't really see it deep enough, and will go on possessed by the Loralee story.

It is easier to see this while focused here, but then quite another when going about daily life, I have noticed anyway.

Of course there are the other fears. But I see that this again is just that same flavor of the experiencer again.

So now to answer your question:

What is this "I" which pretends to be experiencing? Is it not just another thought popping up in a sequence of ocurring thoughts?

Yes - I see that. It can't experience. It can only pretend to. It just pretends. wow! ... WOW!

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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:53 pm

I am sorry...I just have to say this. (And I can hear your Zen stick coming out just about now! he he!)

I know this is silly dramatics, but I have to admit, this feels like that scene in the movie "The last Samuari" where Algren and Katsumoto decide that if they are going to die, to die well, and just go for it with all their heart!

What also comes to mind is the Zen saying: "Jump, and the net will appear".

Ready, set,.....hold your breath!............


I'm done now, thanks for listening.

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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Yes - I see that. It can't experience. It can only pretend to. It just pretends. wow! ... WOW!
Wow!
I know this is silly dramatics, but I have to admit, this feels like that scene in the movie "The last Samuari" where Algren and Katsumoto decide that if they are going to die, to die well, and just go for it with all their heart!
It sounds really good, and I am impressed by your love for the dramatic (and that you remember these names!). I am sorry I have to spoil it: What is it that could die in this process? I know ego-death is a much used metaphor, but answer it for yourself: Is there an ego to begin with?
"Jump, and the net will appear".
Hm, sorry. No net. The good news is: there is no ground :)

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:28 pm

I knew you were going to say that!

(snickering)...

Not the jumping part though... ;)... hummmm, I don't get it...yet, anyway!)

No, I found nothing that could die. It never lived to begin with.
(But it still felt like Algren and Katsumoto though there for a second. Not in a death way, but in the decicion to just rrrrrrrraaaarrrrrrrrr!!!!!......go for it with all their hearts no matter what happened!)

Quite exhilarating actually!

Makes for a good story too.

(Oh...and even though it is one of my fav's for the above reason, I did have to look up their names for spelling if you must know!)

he he!

Speaking of dramatics....I am still waiting for the lightning to strike!

:)

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Trinity
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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:49 pm

Oh...I missed your other question...
Yes, It was always only an idea - a thought always of what was...coming in after what is.

Trying as if to claim it -

This thief of sorts, attempting to steal what it can never have -
own what it can never own.
Or be what it can never be.

Oh! Poetic Drama...My favorite!


(I feel a whacking coming on!)

:)

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LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Ingen » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:59 pm

No whacking. I am enjoying your poetic drama :)

And now you are waiting for the lightning to strike and destroy- what? Or is it just fireworks you expect?

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Re: LL Curtis - This is your thread

Postby Trinity » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:01 pm

Hey, Thank you by the way!

It is like I softly see this. It is a soft, quiet knowing. I don't know how I know what I told you, or even explain it. It is being held differently...or known differently. So it doesn’t feel deep and radical.

“Waiting for the lightning”, to me means, a radical shift of perspective. Black and white…sharp contrasts.
You know…like when I found out that there is no Santa Clause. I see so clearly now the unreality of it that there is no way you could ever convince me that Santa Clause exists in a real way other than a story. That kind of thing.

I guess I expected to be shocked out of my gourd! But it is more like....

Here we go...you had to ask!

"Hum mmm!? Is that it? Am I seeing this, or aren’t I? I think I am. I want this too much, I am trying to convince myself. I know!...My mind did this! Oh, that’s a thought... or is that really something to look at? Should I tell Ingen or not?" That kind of thing.

Welcome to my world!

He he!


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