who else is ready to look?

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:45 am

Thanks! Leaving now will contact you when I get home.

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:32 am

How was your journey?
:)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:49 pm

HI Ilona, I'm back and ready to get back to this with you. we were last talking about the "I" thought

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:16 pm

Great to hear :)
How is it going? Any noticeable shift or feeling stuck?
What is that I that we talked about?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:27 am

Happy to be back! yes, feeling stuck... the mind is nothing but imagination- especially seen for the 'i' thought under all circumstances. Understood just experiencing no 'I' doing any of it. yet the mind pops up and still feels real at times even though I no longer believe it is real. Could we investigate this identity with the body/ mind? What is identity? Is this something my mind is creating from belief in a thought loop like you had described? I also notice a flavor of personality- tendencies, preferences. these also appear as mind habits. Where do we go from here?

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:54 pm

I have been reading some other posts- your conversations with Trevor and Silent arrow. I am surprised that Ifollow everything that is being said. I don't feel particularly different myself nor do I notice any aha moment. But I am aware of the sense of aliveness at all times, this ' I am' it it is like a vibration of Be-ing. If you were to ask me what is it that I am, I would have to say that I am that. it is like a movie screen. On top of it or in it thoughts appear and disappear,
all with an underlying assumption that these are 'my' thoughts. but i can't find and 'I' ever, and I never could. I have read some of Elizabeth's threads and she asks people to move there fingers left and right etc. I notice there is no one who does this.thoughts can happen before or after the action but the action seems to follow something called an intention which seems to be an unthought thought and can go along with the thought or even go opposite the the thought, but there is no 'I' who is doing this. I feel no fear of losing control, I seem to be letting go of expectations about what this must be like. I am really interested in ruthlessly getting to the Truth whatever it turns out to be. I don't seem to be identifying with a separate person, Michael,but now there seemsto be identifying with this underlying consciousness, this movie screen. I may be deluding myself here too, not sure, but not afraid to find out what is True no matter how it turns out

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:08 pm

I am surprised there is much more comprehension than i have imagined, can't wait to hear from you.

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:11 pm

Ok, let's say there is this movie screen. Does it need a you to exist? Does consciousness need an I ? how does this fit in?

Take a look, there is no you as in zero. None. Not as consciousness, not as space, not as anything.

I am that - there is no I and no that in reality. Only in imagination.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:28 pm

Thanks this is really helpful. i want to consider all this for a little time then post replies to each of these questions.

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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:58 pm

About the movie screen- no consciousness does not need an "I". everything is just happening as experiences, including thoughts and thoughts like this is happening to "me". but I cannot find this me anywhere, ever.
As far as finding a me- could not find it in the mind as that is all imagination. Although the body seems real and has always been the focus of a me. I can see that it is in imagination too. As I close my eyes there is no body only sensations and memory that there is a body here. So i am stuck on consciousness which is always in the present moment and an unchanging "experience". It is the screen that these experiences-thoughts, sensations, feelings, objects etc. happen on. So there is an assumption that this must be me and what "I" refers to. It is completely impersonal, always there not doing anything. I would not even call it a witness although attention of awareness makes it appear that there is a someone directing attention. I cannot find anyone. In each present moment there is this consciousness and experiences happening in it. i cannot even separate consciousness from the experiences.I cannot find a me who this is happening to. and yet thoughts come up taking credit for actions etc. as usual only i see this imagination.
So can't find an "I", although the tendency is to now identify Self as this underlying consciousness. I do not mind if this is not True. It just looks like the mind wants to latch on to an identity and say this is me. When you say there is no that in reality, do you mean there are no objects either? Are you just describing experiencing and not considering anything as separate from the experiencing? I see table- really table is being seen there is no i seeing it.there is an actual table being seen, not in imagination or from memory. This is what I would call an object a That. the whole process happens effortlessly as experiencing: consciousness + object. there is no i in the process. Please feel free to
hack away at any concepts I am retaining concerning this. Its funny, i do not feel different at all, and i am not expecting to feel anything in particular only there is an apprehension that underneath the verbiage something is starting to be seen correctly. And, I do not mind if i am wrong here either. Looking forward to whatever you have to say.

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Great great great. Yes, you slowly moving towards the gate. Notice that.

That- if you say that is a table and I am that, are you saying that I am table? Is this true? I am that is pointing to identification and all identity is assumed. All of it. It's not a matte of mistaken identity and you are looking for your true self. There is no true self. There is no self at all.


This what is perceived, what feels alive and moving is happening without an ownership. It's all one life expressing itself AS this. As the body as table, as keyboard as typing as questioning. As this.

None of this need a manager. It is happening by itself. No matter what thoughts apear about it. The thoughts are also what is happening as this.

So if me can not be found anywhere, is it possible that there is no me at all? Consider this possibility, look if it's true.
Look at what is obvious. Quit trying to find something that is not here, look at what is.

If I asked you- is there a batman in your room, would the answer be obvious? Would you need to look for him?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:58 pm

This is getting very interesting. thanks for clearing up what you meant by That. no i am not a table that is something in experiencing in this moment. no "I" is seeing it. it is just happening automatically...along with the thought I am seeing the table which is just an imagination in the mind.So no I cannot find a me anywhere, and this consciousness is not me. then there is no me to be found, only experiencing (consciousness+ objects in the moment). no one is being identified as me, Life is just going on. No i would not even look for the Batman. he is in imagination just like the "I" thought is. This is getting good. Thanks Ilona! It appears that there is real apprehension of what is going on and then the mind can fall into its old habit of believing itself to be real, but the understanding that rthe entire mind is all imagination really helps!!! where do we go from here?

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:43 pm

good work, drfunk..
It appears that there is real apprehension of what is going on and then the mind can fall into its old habit of believing itself to be real,
now look deeper into what you say- it appears... what is true?
can mind believe anything?
what is mind? is is a label for stream of thoughts or something else?

clarify this please..
getting close.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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drfunk
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby drfunk » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:59 pm

right- perceiving experiences is happening and the mind popping up commenting is what "appears" to be real, but it is only imagination, always, at all times, but sometimes this is forgotten. No the mind can't believe anything. it is just a stream of thoughts reflecting what is happening in the body and world all in imagination

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Ilona
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Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:12 pm

Sweet. So can you see that what is and what thoughts say about what is is not the same thing?
The commentary is going on automatically and it's mistakenly assumed to be reality.

Is it clear that mind stuff is all fiction? It can describe real, but never touch real and words can only point to real.

See if you can describe what is going on here- how illusion of I influences life of a human.

Looking forward to your answer.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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