Rise Again

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Ilona
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Ilona » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:18 pm

You are doing fine, just need a bit more focus. So focus on my questions and answer them all one by one, whatever feels true to you.

You say that when you look for a gap between chair and bum, the answer eludes you. It's quite funny, because there is no gap and you mind does not take that for the answer. Look, there is no gap and how could there be?
The silence is the answer, it's not an absence of reply, it's the answer. Where is the gap? - there is no gap!
Now face this- there is no perceiver, no experiencer, no witness, no Stacey living life. There is perceiving, experiencing, witnessing, life living itself as many apearances and forms. Including this body and thoughts, feelings, sensations....

So tell me, is stacey feeling the bum on the chair?
Where is Stacey? What is experiencing Stacey?
Is there a feeler of sensations?
Must there be?

Looking forward to your answers.
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Anastacia42
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:48 pm

No gap. No Stacy that I can find. I feel "close." But it feels like "understanding" and not "knowing."

I read some more today in LU.

Wrote some notes about difference between "Looking" and "Noticing." Looking is stressful and separating and tight. Noticing is relaxed and ... open... hmm... more just something that "is."
You are doing fine, just need a bit more focus. So focus on my questions and answer them all one by one, whatever feels true to you.

You say that when you look for a gap between chair and bum, the answer eludes you. It's quite funny, because there is no gap and you mind does not take that for the answer. Look, there is no gap and how could there be?
The silence is the answer, it's not an absence of reply, it's the answer. Where is the gap? - there is no gap!
Now face this- there is no perceiver, no experiencer, no witness, no Stacey living life. There is perceiving, experiencing, witnessing, life living itself as many apearances and forms. Including this body and thoughts, feelings, sensations....
So tell me, is stacey feeling the bum on the chair?
Where is Stacey? What is experiencing Stacey?
Is there a feeler of sensations?
Must there be?
Looking forward to your answers.
Much love.
I also let some of my fears come to my awareness: fear of pain and death (heart attack - I woke up night before last with my heart pounding), mostly. Also, discomfort - being alone a lot, no one to date, etc. I have a lot of debt and very little income the past 2 years. I got knocked out of a job I'd been in for 5 years. I got really determined to follow the open, clear feelings and not do things for money that cause that tight "no" in my gut. I've moved 3 times, following the open knowing.

Think to just leave "I" out of the writing for practice, as much as possible.

That part is good - knowing when and where to move. Feels great to just go. Moved each time in less than 10 days. Wondering why no "open knowing" for income or for waking up, yet.

Excited to read the idea of healing humanity of the "I" virus, one human at a time. I want to do that! Uh, yeah, "I" again.

It could sound like an excuse to a lot of people, but one thing is no interested in things that are not true. Truth is everything - and not quite living it or "have" it in the deeper sense of liberation and Deep Looking. Without that, feels like everything falls short, isn't clear, has some stress and lying in it.

I was embarrassed to see how I so quickly fell off focusing and how often I'm not trying to look.

I want this so much. *sigh* Wanting is stressful - always. How to notice? Look.

Each time I sink into or relax into letting myself look, I get kind of ... foggy brained. There is something fuzzy about the sensations in my head, behind my eyes. Is that distraction? This one does have a body with low blood sugar issues. It feels better to say it that way, but sounds pompous, too.

Going back to your reply...
So tell me, is stacy feeling the bum on the chair?
Where is Stacy? What is experiencing Stacy?
Is there a feeler of sensations?
Must there be?
No. No Stacy can be found. I don't know what is experiencing. Typing is happening.
It *seems* like there would be a feeler of sensations and one is not found.
Feeling gets kind of wonky here. Don't know any reason there must be. Don't know.

Fingers still on keyboard. Not finding more to say.

Much love,
Stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:48 pm

Oops! Learning about the quote function!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Ilona
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Ilona » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:14 pm

Good work! Thank you for taking time and looking!
You say that Stacey can not be found and still it feels like an understanding rather than knowing. What would be the difference?

Some fears come up, it's a good sign that you are investigations some new territory, asking questions that never been asked before. The fear of unknown is natural.
The fear of death is one of the biggest human fears.
This process is meant to trigger all kinds of fears so that the fear can be welcomed and allowed. Then you can look behind it, what is there that needs protection?

So let's look closer- when sound is heard is there a gap between hearer and the sound?
Is there a line between here and there?
Are you inside the bag of skin or outside?
Is there inside and outside?
Close eyes and observe the space, is there anything outseide that space?
How about with eyes open?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Anastacia42
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:30 pm

Thank you, Ilona.

Forgive me, and there is no "e" in my name - not that it matters too much since I'm looking at not finding a me. It's just a little distracted somehow. I was trying not to say anything, but it's distracting. You can spell it Xyz if you want.

Fortunately or unfortunately none of these questions are new. I've been trying not to talk about those in order not to sound like a know-it-all since that is definitely not what I'm here for.

I heard that the universe "peopled" back when I first heard & read Alan Watts (The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are & others) beginning in 1974, when I was about 14 years old. I used to listen to him on the radio before I went to sing in the church choir on Sunday mornings. Kind of a dual religious education.

Have done meditations finding the tiny moment of death. What I found there was release and peace.

Have done a meditation called "Where is I?" Looked for the "I" in space in a slightly different way than you are directing. We look for the boundaries of "I" and can't find it at all. It is a bit of a mind-blowing experience. Don't know if that is what you would call "seeing" or not.

It's 6:30 am and I like to meditate when I first wake up. So will spend more time looking and report back

Any difference between those experiences of clear seeing and what you are calling looking and seeing is not clear to ... me (to use language). Those brought about an understanding and a peace inside that has never left.

Much love & gratitude for your time & sharing.
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Re: Rise Again

Postby Ilona » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:50 pm

Morning Stacey! :)
Yes, those questions are not new but what I'm asking you to do here is to answer from your observations alone, not from some aquired knowledge. We have to put all you know on hold for now and simply look at what is true in your experience.
I love Alan watts too.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:04 am

what I'm asking you to do here is to answer from your observations alone, not from some acquired knowledge. We have to put all you know on hold for now and simply look at what is true in your experience.
Right: experience of sitting in a guided meditation, asking "Where is 'I'?" Finding no one.
That is experience, having nothing to do with any acquired knowledge. I apologize if that was not clear. The rest of it was just old verbal touchstones about those experiences (and others).

So we are looking at my immediate experience, but not looking "for" an experience (per previous replies). Tricky when described. Can't be accurate. Simple when actually done. It's as if experience is ALL there is.
when sound is heard is there a gap between hearer and the sound?
Is there a line between here and there?
Are you inside the bag of skin or outside?
Is there inside and outside?
Close eyes and observe the space, is there anything outside that space?
How about with eyes open?
Cannot find a gap between any of these differently labeled things that are one thing when I actually look and am not thinking words.

No lines, no gaps, no inside, no outside. Has no meaning when attention is turned that way.
Labels don't make the words of the label true when they are not.

Doesn't change with eyes open or closed.
Pictures and words come and go. Sitting here it gets kind of peaceful. Quieter. Thank you.

Much love,
Stacy

Gets a little wonky again, a little topsy-turvy, sinking into not knowing and seeing no lines... gaps.
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Re: Rise Again

Postby Ilona » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:09 am

Thank you very much for taking a look! Yes, labels are not words and repeated words do not become things or entities. Good work!
Let's look today at language itself and see how it creates the illusion of someone being here, on the receiving end.
There is an exercise on this page, do it here or on paper, does not matter. See how language works in action. Tell me does describing experience in a different way make the experience itself different? What effect does description have over what is happening?

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

Does using words I/me /mine have an effect on how you feel about what is happening?

Have fun with this.
Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Anastacia42
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:28 am

COMPLETELY different!

Except that others might find it annoying or ... something... would write sans "I" and "me" forever.

With "I" or "me" feels tense, tight, untrue.

Without "I" or "me" feels WAY more relaxed, open, almost joyful. Almost a little giggle in the throat. Just joyful!

Actioning is what is happening. No "me" or "I" - almost seems silly each time looking at it that way. Languaging in this joyful, relaxed way likely to be off-putting to other humans. How is that handled? Or once seeing is fuller, does language matter less?

Typing. Sitting. Wondering. Ahhhhhh, so happy this way.

Much love!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Ilona
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Ilona » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:43 pm

Wonderful :)
I have no problem using word I and know that it's empty at the same time :) it takes time to get used to that, hehe and it's easy to get temporarily experience selfing again... Such is the nature of illusion, appearances, concepts, ideas get confused for a real something.

Tell me how do you experience Stacy?
What does word Stacy stand for? What does it point to?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:01 pm

Good morning.

Life has been happening. Sorry for the 4 day delay.

My cat, Trillian, has some kind of pain in her mouth and I'm trying to treat her with over-the-counter gel remedies because I have no money for a vet. I hate having to hold her and put the stuff in her mouth. She hides from me and runs from me. This has never happened in our 7 years together.
Tell me how do you experience Stacy?
What does word Stacy stand for? What does it point to?
So, the above is part of how I experience Stacy. Could answer with my entire 57 years of life, although all of that is part of it.

Now...

Fingers on keyboard typing. Sleepy, sleepy, sleepy behind eyes. Hard to keep them open.

The word, "Stacy," stand for ... um... a collection of ideas, none of which are found when looking for them. Totally like believing in Santa Claus, amazing how true that is.

Points to . . . actually, nothing, too sleepy to concentrate. Is it harder to see when you are tired? Could it be easier?

Woke up at 4:30 am, put gel in cat's mouth. Finally sleepy enough to get a little more rest. All of this still not Stacy.

Mostly wanted to check in and say ... uh... something unidentifiable still following, reading, looking.

Zzzzz
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Re: Rise Again

Postby Ilona » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:31 am

Oh dear, poor kitty! Give him a hug...

Can you write while not sleepy, the view might be different. Focus and write where is Stacy, what is she, how do you experience her?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:17 pm

Thank you. Trillian, Calico and genetically female, is now running from me because she hates having the gel put into her mouth to heal it. She's under the bed most of the day, leaving me little choice but to assault her with the healing gel when I have the opportunity. It is frustrating.

She thanks you for your sympathy to her plight, and so do I.

I signed on because something is happening. Listening to Sam Harris's podcast talk with Jordon B. Peterson, a Canadian scientist who has gotten a lot of press for objecting to some new Canadian law (C16?) that restricts free speech by requiring people to use gender neutral pronouns on request and making it a jailable and fine-able offense if you don't use these pronouns (there are apparently many of them, Peterson said 17).

HOWEVER - before they can discuss pronoun legislation they spend 2 hours discussing TRUTH and its definition.

(This is all preamble to how that is affecting experience of this one listening to it.)

Harris says there is an objective scientific truth. Peterson is maintaining that his definition of truth must include a requirement that for something to be true, it must not be contrary to Darwin and our survival.

Peterson is blatantly wrong to me. Survival has not jack-sh*t to do with truth.

Peterson sounds scared and Harris sounds safe and secure with a definition of truth that does not require his or the world's survival.

Propelled into some level of awareness (again) that the whole world as currently perceived by the one called "me" is a lie. It is like one veil dropped and an awareness of other veils over ... reality ... truth. Aware that this is just a beginning and all that is seen is fog.
where is Stacy, what is she, how do you experience her?
This question brings that ... um.... perception-ish happening of the whole world as a lie into more personal space.

Stacy must be a lie! A lie that can only be believed while ignoring the fact that ... gosh, fact that there is no world. no world no stacy have to go together. Can't be a stacy if there isn't a world.

Not fully experiencing, feeling, perceiving from that place - just a little bit - and mind grabs it and says, "I know," which is really getting in the way here!!!

Will roll that around today - no world - no stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Re: Rise Again

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:59 pm

How is it that colors get brighter and the world looks sharper and clearer as this thing happens?
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Ilona
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Re: Rise Again

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:16 am

Ok, there is no world no Stacy, but what IS? What is left?
What is your definition of truth? Don't quote or try to remember who said what, tell me how you see it, what is truth, where is it found, what is the difference between truth and lie.

What is your definition of the world?
Where is a line between here and out there?
Line between inside and outside? Find it.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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