Final Countdown

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:13 am

Yesterday I had a dispute with the teacher of the retreat about your question, as he claimed to be the presence not touched by objects though not seperated from them as well , empty awareness itself, while I claimed this to be dualistic and this I as presence or awareness an unneccesary idea. I mean is it not artificial to distinguish experience from being aware of it? Of what relevance would an outer-senses awareness be when life is just experience? This seems clear to me but still does not result in a shift...

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7492
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:02 pm

What kind of a shift are you hoping for?
The shift can be so subtle that can be unnoticed till later. It's not a way to achieve happy ever after, or be free from unwanted emotions. The freedom is found in experiencing all without judgement and trying to manipulate what is being felt.

"Experience" is a word used over same sensation- knowing of experience, being aware of experience, it's only language that creates a subject-action duality. Without words, there is no duality, only seem less flow of perceived. Does that make sense?

Claiming 'I am presence' still subtly assumes a subject. The presence itself needs no identification. Have a look right now, what is that needs an identity? Does that identity give a sense of security?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:11 pm

What kind of a shift are you hoping for?
I expect a change of perception in a way that it is more that the world is in me than me in the world. And I expect my system to relax and become more permeable so that feelings and painful tension are not so sticky and pass though.
Without words, there is no duality, only seem less flow of perceived. Does that make sense?
Yes!
Claiming 'I am presence' still subtly assumes a subject. The presence itself needs no identification. Have a look right now, what is that needs an identity? Does that identity give a sense of security?
Maybe the body tensions are with me for so long to give me something stable to hold on to and to not get lost in infinity. I have only slight access to this fear but feelings ready to face it ...

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7492
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:19 am

I expect a change of perception in a way that it is more that the world is in me than me in the world. And I expect my system to relax and become more permeable so that feelings and painful tension are not so sticky and pass though.
Hmm, you seem to have an idea how it should be like, which is in the way of seeing how it is. When you expect to see it in a particular way, then that expectation is obscuring the view. Why not to drop this and take a good look without trying to fit what is into an idea. The world is in me- what is that me and how big is it? Sounds grandiose. Drop that imagined container and see - the world just is. No container, no I at all.
It's like you are saying that you expect to see that Santa is a container of Christmas.
I am saying that there is no Santa at all. That all that Santa is, is a nice fiction.
What is this me without a story about it?
Are you a story?
Do you own the story?
Are you inside or outside of story?
Is there I that owns a story about me?

The relaxation will happen once you face and see that I/ me/ separate self is part of narrative, but not an actual entity/ container/ doer.

So face it.
There is no you as you think you are, none whatsoever. It's not that no Santa replaces a Santa. It's just there is no Santa and never was.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:18 am

I love your pointing- no space for fiction.

Why not to drop this and take a good look without trying to fit what is into an idea.

Yes, enough of this virtual reality - though I already had experiences of the world being in me that must still have been an illusion, a more favourable one but I nevertheless prefer the truth.

What is this me without a story about it?
Are you a story?
Do you own the story?
Are you inside or outside of story?
Is there I that owns a story about me?

It must be perception fitted into the idea of I - I will watch. ...

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7492
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:34 pm

This seeing, knowing is not about experiences.. Experiences show us something, then they pass. All states pass, no state is permanent. But knowing is not a state. It's like knowing that Santa is fiction is not a state. That knowing does not make you feel good bad or whatever. It's much subtler than that. It means that never in life you can be confused about the reality of Santa. It just does not compute anymore to imagine that he is some special creature. It's not even a question anymore, it's absolutely clear, that even if you go to North Pole and search by meter, no Santa would be found.
See?

So having experiences of expansion and contraction, where everything is perceived as one and everything is perceived as outside of you have nothing to do with knowing what I is.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:22 pm

What is this me without a story about it?

The me is a story. Without the story (which I understand as direct experience here now through the five senses) there is just sensing, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting. The story about it appears on thought channel which is emulated sensual experience - mainly virtual seeing and hearing. Direct experience is the reality check to identity fiction.
Yesterday mind played tricks on me and layed a picture of vomit over my dish. The escape out of this story was direct experience of seeing and tasting which revealed that the cook had done a good job ;o)

Are you a story?

No, this seeming I is what the story is about.

Do you own the story?

The story is just appearing as thought.

Are you inside or outside of story?

The seeming I is in the story and the story is just story telling.

Is there I that owns a story about me?

No, I is the fairy tale without owner.

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:43 pm

Dear Ilona,

today a critical mass of presence seems reached. I notice that there come up inner stories for every little thing - a non-stop commenting. I do not think that it has become more but that noticing has improved and the insight that these are all just stories. I want to apologize for the drastic example of my last message, I was frustrated about how mind boykotts enjoyment. The good thing about it is that it helps me to let go of all stories - if mind had please me with good night stories maybe truth would have moved more out of reach.

Thank you so much for your guidance - a major leap has silently happend and noise will fade out.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7492
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:56 pm

lovely to hear about the leap... how is it going?
is searching still full on or somehow diminished?
what's different?


much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:43 pm

Searching ceased - there is instead again and again a verification of what is true and what illusion. There is still a preference for having nice body sensations instead of pain but the understanding that this also is only appearing. There is no doer but doing. The I is a helpful idea for human communication like saying St. Peter has a good day to communicate that the sun is out. No spectecular phenomena but a grateful soberness.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7492
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:50 pm

wonderful!

what was the last push to seeing this?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:06 pm

The last push was when sitting with my shoulder pain and realizing that there was the wish for a happy end of the story of the sufferer before being ready to turn off the inner TV. Seeing this brought silence and clarity.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7492
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:50 pm

How is it going?
Tell me about what you are noticing, what do you see differently from before starting this conversation

Happy new year :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:59 pm

Yes, a happy new year for you too!

Today on the drive returning from the retreat there were soft waves of love and gratitude and the music I was listening to went directly into the heart so to say. Already yesterday I noticed that another aspect of the silent presence was love, first shy but obviously more daring now and replacing distructive thoughts that dominated before.

There is clarity that my name is not a label for someone who experiences but that this seeming one is an experience itself - an imagination though, so thought level and not direct experience.

User avatar
Truthcounts
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:27 pm

Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:50 am

Last night I could hardly sleep. Experience was a vibrant information flow only. When I finally fell asleep I dreamt that I had to study but missed all the lectures and finally found myself pondering: I am guide in LU - what should there be more to learn?
Funny, but indeed I am inclined to guide and to share this liberation - out of gratitude and the wish to deepen even more.


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests