Self-Control

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:24 pm

Hey Chris
YES, when in the throws of drama or pain or fear.
It rejects MY looking in direct experience for unity, wholeness. The seer is not the seen. It is bothered by ME and MY expectations and MY doubts.
It is bothered by ME and MY expectations and MY doubts and MY thoughts.
1) ME, ME, ME and MY expectations, and MY doubts.
2) Direct experience—There is no unity. The seer is not the seen. The desire for seeking is still happening. Wholeness is not there.
I’ve been trying so hard to get rid of ME. ME refuses to leave. It doesn’t exist—never has. Why won’t it just go? I repeat what I know to be the truth about the ME over and over again in my head, every day--DUH!--me talking to me. Enough already!
I've chunked all these together. Look at them all. What is speaking here? Do you see it's all thought?
What tries to look and says it can't?
What is bothered by and wants shot of 'me'?
What has doubts?
What says wholeness is not there? Where did you loom for this answer? In thought? Or what is actually experienced?
What rejects?
What isn't happy with this?
What tries to convince?
What tries! Who is there TO try?
What thinks it can control any of this? Or even understand it!
Thought? Look?
I’ll do a bunch of this tomorrow, and report back.
Ok thanks!
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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SwissKid
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Re: Self-Control

Postby SwissKid » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:44 pm

YESTERDAY I said, “Nothing is permanent”. Sarah said, See this movement [PERMANENCE]. Watch it. Watch it with thoughts, sensations, emotions,
identification with ‘I'......etc.

Watch it with thoughts, sensations, emotions, identification with “I”.
THOUGHTS are angry and frustrated and righteously state . . . Nothing is permanent!
SENSATIONS = big contraction, tension, and nausea
EMOTIONS = sadness, anxiety, and fear
"I" = confused, sad, tired

I've chunked all these together. Look at them all. What is speaking here? Do you see it's all thought? YES. (I FORGET THAT ME AND THOUGHT IS NOT THE SAME THING. THEY SEEM LIKE THE SAME THING.)
What tries to look and says it can't? THOUGHTS
What is bothered by and wants shot of 'me'? THOUGHTS
What has doubts? THOUGHTS
What says wholeness is not there? Where did you loom for this answer? In thought? Or what is actually experienced? THOUGHTS THAT I TOOK TO BE DIRECT EXPERIENCE BUT MAYBE JUST EXPECTATIONS
What rejects? THOUGHT
What isn't happy with this? THOUGHT
What tries to convince? THOUGHT
What tries! Who is there TO try? THOUGHT
What thinks it can control any of this? Or even understand it! THOUGHT
Thought? Look? THOUGHT

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:51 pm

Hey Chris
EMOTIONS = sadness, anxiety, and fear
An exercise:
In order to know fear we have to know resistance. Fear is resistance and ‘I don’t like’. Turn towards this feeling of fear so completely, so fully, allow it into you without the slightest trace of resistance – then turn around and see what remains of the fear. Can you allow this fear so completely, even with the possibility that it might annihilate you? Can you see that what you essentially are already allows that so fully without the slightest resistance to it? For who or what is it a problem that there is fear? Is it a problem for a single thought? What is it a problem for after that single thought has gone as it will? Another thought? In between the 2 thoughts is there a problem? Only thought is worried or threatened.
What is the sensation itself – striped of story – ignore the thoughts – look to the sensation only. The sensation changes continually or vibrates. Go into it. How old is the vibration, how long has this fear labelled sensation been? Has it just happened, does it have a history this sensation (apart from what thought gives it). How would you describe this sensation? Is it ever changing? Is it painful? Is it a problem this sensation? If thought says its unpleasant is it really? Go to the sensations and check under the label and story. Is unpleasantness added by thought? Look as new born baby – you know nothing but the current experience – is it really unpleasant? Go to the sensation – turn down the volume of the thoughts – is it a problem? If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something labelled or called fear? Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself? Go to the sensation located at the sole of your foot – would you call that sensation fear? Or is it just a tingling vibration? Now compare these 2 sensations – the neutral soles of the feet to the labelled sensation in the chest or where ever – whats the difference between them? Don’t refer to the labels – just refer to the sensations. Is one more intense? Like a headache? If you don’t refer to your thoughts is it unpleasant? Could you live with this sensation for the rest of your life? Can you see how the thoughts get mixed up with the sensation? Is there an ‘I cant’ in there – that’s a thought. Is there an ‘I don’t want’ in there – that’s a thought. Go past the thought to the body sensation. Can you detect interpretation of the sensation? Thoughts again. Can you see the labels thought is trying to add - like – ‘this is fear’, ‘this is unpleasant’ or ‘this has been here for so long’? None of these thoughts actually belong to the sensation. See the thoughts but place them to one side. Without these thoughts would you know these sensations were fear? Same with the body – pure tingling sensation with thought overlaid. Is there resistance in the sensation or is it in the thought? The constriction is caused by thought. The tension is caused by thoughts. What happens as the sensation is relieved of its labels?
THOUGHTS THAT I TOOK TO BE DIRECT EXPERIENCE BUT MAYBE JUST EXPECTATIONS
Is the content of thought real? Look at what else is experienced apart from thought content. Sit with, be with and get curious about what is actually experienced - regardless of whether the label says it is a bad or good experience, and regardless of whether thought says it should or shouldn't be happening. And if something does complain, shout, reject, etc. look at what that is? then try laughing or smiling :) every time it is seen.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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SwissKid
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Re: Self-Control

Postby SwissKid » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:23 pm

Last email post -(Sarah) [See this movement [PERMANENCE]. Watch it. Watch it with thoughts, sensations, emotions, identification with ‘I’......etc.]

Chris answered . . . EMOTIONS = sadness, anxiety, and fear
An exercise:
In order to know FEAR we have to know resistance. Fear is resistance and ‘I don’t like’. Turn towards this feeling of fear so completely, so fully, allow it into you without the slightest trace of resistance – then turn around and see what remains of the fear. Can you allow this fear so completely, even with the possibility that it might annihilate you? YES I CAN.

Can you see that what you essentially are already allows that so fully without the slightest resistance to it? YES I SEE IT.

For who or what is it a problem that there is fear? Is it a problem for a single thought? What is it a problem for after that single thought has gone as it will? Another thought? YES In between the 2 thoughts is there a problem? NO. Only thought is worried or threatened. YES, THOUGHT. YOU ARE RIGHT.

What is the sensation itself – striped of story – ignore the thoughts – look to the sensation only. The sensation changes continually or vibrates. Go into it. How old is the vibration, how long has this fear labelled sensation been? Has it just happened, does it have a history this sensation (apart from what thought gives it). WITHOUT THOUGHTS THERE’S NOTHING I CAN SAY ABOUT IT.

How would you describe this sensation? Is it ever changing? YES Is it painful? ONLY WITH THOUGHT. Is it a problem this sensation? If thought says its unpleasant is it really? NO PROBLEM WITHOUT THOUGHT.

Go to the sensations and check under the label and story. Is unpleasantness added by thought? Look as new born baby – you know nothing but the current experience – is it really unpleasant? Go to the sensation – turn down the volume of the thoughts – is it a problem? If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something labelled or called fear? Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself? NO TO THESE QUESTIONS

Go to the sensation located at the sole of your foot – would you call that sensation fear? Or is it just a tingling vibration? JUST A VIBRATION. Now compare these 2 sensations – the neutral soles of the feet to the labelled sensation in the chest or where ever – whats the difference between them? Don’t refer to the labels – just refer to the sensations. Is one more intense? Like a headache? MORE INTENSE THAN THE FOOT. LESS INTENSE THAN A HEADACHE.

If you don’t refer to your thoughts is it unpleasant? NO Could you live with this sensation for the rest of your life? Can you see how the thoughts get mixed up with the sensation? Is there an ‘I cant’ in there – that’s a thought. Is there an ‘I don’t want’ in there – that’s a thought. Go past the thought to the body sensation. YES AND YES.

Can you detect interpretation of the sensation? Thoughts again. Can you see the labels thought is trying to add - like – ‘this is fear’, ‘this is unpleasant’ or ‘this has been here for so long’? YES, ABSOLUTELY.

None of these thoughts actually belong to the sensation. See the thoughts but place them to one side. Without these thoughts would you know these sensations were fear? NO I WOULDN’T, AND I HAVE BEEN HAVING A LOT OF THEM AND DIDN’T KNOW IT WAS FEAR. IN FACT I SORT OF THOUGHT THEY WERE COOL (see my first LU introduction post). SO YOU HAVE REALLY MADE YOUR POINT.

Same with the body – pure tingling sensation with thought overlaid. Is there resistance in the sensation or is it in the thought? IT’S ALL THOUGHT. The constriction is caused by thought. The tension is caused by thoughts. What happens as the sensation is relieved of its labels? IT JUST PASSES.

THOUGHTS THAT I TOOK TO BE DIRECT EXPERIENCE BUT MAYBE JUST EXPECTATIONS

Is the content of thought real? NO Look at what else is experienced apart from thought content. Sit with, be with and get curious about what is actually experienced - regardless of whether the label says it is a bad or good experience, and regardless of whether thought says it should or shouldn't be happening. And if something does complain, shout, reject, etc. look at what that is? then try laughing or smiling :) every time it is seen. OKAY I WILL. THIS IS BECOMING CLEAR.
I had an “aha” moment today while doing your exercises. Sitting outside looking around in DE, watching the show of stuff in the landscape, inquiring, “Does spirit see itself? Does it love itself? Then looking straight ahead at the barn, no thoughts, and BOOM! Wow! There it was. That which notices became the barn, and the barn became that which notices—just one thing, merged into one thing, no space between them. It felt like love, and I smiled.

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:56 pm

Hi Chris
I had an “aha” moment today while doing your exercises. Sitting outside looking around in DE, watching the show of stuff in the landscape, inquiring, “Does spirit see itself? Does it love itself? Then looking straight ahead at the barn, no thoughts, and BOOM! Wow! There it was. That which notices became the barn, and the barn became that which notices—just one thing, merged into one thing, no space between them. It felt like love, and I smiled.
I just want you to work with the exercise please AND just watch and notice whatever arises with the exercise and whilst not doing it. Notice stuff come up and go, appear and disappear, like reflections crossing a mirror. Pay attention to that which notices - that is the mirror. Does it reject anything? Does that which notices mind what comes and what goes? Get curious about it. No worries about immediate posting. Take your ti,e and just watch and notice. Ok?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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SwissKid
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Re: Self-Control

Postby SwissKid » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:05 pm

I just want you to work with the exercise please AND just watch and notice whatever arises with the exercise and whilst not doing it. Notice stuff come up and go, appear and disappear, like reflections crossing a mirror. Pay attention to that which notices - that is the mirror. Does it reject anything? Does that which notices mind what comes and what goes? Get curious about it. No worries about immediate posting. Take your ti,e and just watch and notice. Ok?
Hugs Sarah xxx
There is more noticing the “one/two punch” of experience = First the experience (e.g. seeing), then, the thought. It’s becoming more and more clear. Also, thoughts are more easily observed and dismissed.

It is observed that ALL TRUTH comes from DIRECT LOOKING and perhaps an abiding awareness is predicated on the degree and frequency to which direct looking happens. No other “spirit loving itself moments” are happening.

On the subject of seeing NO-SELF:
NO ME is how things are, and this is how it’s seen . . . Noticing uncovers the truth of no-self, not noticing obscures this truth, just like not noticing breathing might suggest a breather—realizing the truth is not automatic. But noticing or not noticing will not change the reality that there is no self.

The mirror or that which notices: Nothing is rejected, preferred, things come and go easier and with less thought/story/memory.

Did a partial chair yoga DVD at home yesterday. Quite a nice noticing experience—very different from a month ago. Happy tunnel in attendance. Some fear cropped up when the intention to do yoga happened and doing the yoga was avoided for some minutes. Fear of failure was noticed, “Why try when failure (finishing the whole DVD) is eminent?” (a thought). Ultimately, failure was realized, yoga was only partially completed (a sad STORY), but not too sad.

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:23 pm

Hi Chris
NO ME is how things are, and this is how it’s seen
Do you feel the illusion of self has been clearly revealed? Is there doubt or un-clarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
Quite a nice noticing experience—very different from a month ago. Happy tunnel in attendance. Some fear cropped up when the intention to do yoga happened and doing the yoga was avoided for some minutes. Fear of failure was noticed, “Why try when failure (finishing the whole DVD) is eminent?” (a thought). Ultimately, failure was realized, yoga was only partially completed (a sad STORY), but not too sad.
Is it seen that this is all story? And is any of it a problem?
A very happy Christmas to you and your family Christ, if you celebrate!
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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SwissKid
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Re: Self-Control

Postby SwissKid » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:33 pm

Do you feel the illusion of self has been clearly revealed? Is there doubt or un-clarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
The illusion of self has been clearly seen. When there is clear seeing/looking, there is no doubt that self is a mental fabrication.
SwissKid wrote:
Quite a nice noticing experience—very different from a month ago. Happy tunnel in attendance. Some fear cropped up when the intention to do yoga happened and doing the yoga was avoided for some minutes. Fear of failure was noticed, “Why try when failure (finishing the whole DVD) is eminent?” (a thought). Ultimately, failure was realized, yoga was only partially completed (a sad STORY), but not too sad.
Is it seen that this is all story? And is any of it a problem?
Yes it is all story. Yes it is a problem, but not a problem for LU guiding. It will have to be sorted out later as an "after" inquiry.

Thanks Sarah, and Merry Christmas,

Chris

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:25 am

Hi Chris
Yes it is a problem, but not a problem for LU guiding. It will have to be sorted out later as an "after" inquiry.
Can you explain please? For who or what is it a problem? And what needs to be sorted?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Re: Self-Control

Postby SwissKid » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:04 pm

Can you explain please? For who or what is it a problem? And what needs to be sorted?
It is seen here that we are just about done with guiding, and even though the no-self is seen and understood, feelings, emotions, thoughts and self will not go away. They will have to be examined, seen through via direct experience, or inquiry.

In reading the sidebar here: http://liberationunleashed.com/about/describe-this/ it is clear that more independent inquiry will follow our guiding, and getting rid of fear (for example) here and now is an unreasonable expectation and not part of our guiding.

"Awakening from the story of self does not mean that all of a sudden all of your problems are going to vanish that there will suddenly be no more tough emotions or challenging situations. This is not about getting away from difficulty, pain, and suffering. Not at all. These are, and will remain, part of the drama of living a human life. So please don’t consider difficult feelings and overwhelming thoughts as a sign that you’re never going to get this, or you’re doing things wrong."

I see where Pamela Wilson, Byron Katie, Neelam, and Ilona try to help people with these things.

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:06 am

Hi Chris
It is seen here that we are just about done with guiding, and even though the no-self is seen and understood, feelings, emotions, thoughts and self will not go away. They will have to be examined, seen through via direct experience, or inquiry.
In reading the sidebar here: http://liberationunleashed.com/about/describe-this/ it is clear that more independent inquiry will follow our guiding, and getting rid of fear (for example) here and now is an unreasonable expectation and not part of our guiding.
Is there still an expectation that fear will go, along with feelings, emotions and thoughts? If so what wants that? What expects that? Is that a 'grass is greener in that field over there' story?
Has seeking ceased?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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SwissKid
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Re: Self-Control

Postby SwissKid » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:56 pm

Is there still an expectation that fear will go, along with feelings, emotions and thoughts?
Today, looking at it clearly and honestly, this is the expectation and what I keep waiting for . . .
A shift in consciousness or a shift in perspective will reveal the truth of no self with LASTING impact, clarity (Aaha!), with no effort, no doubt, and no turning back.

I expect that fear, emotions, feelings, thoughts will continue to be around and looked at always, but their impact someday, after a shift, will be mitigated, their power lessened, and some things might just dissolve and not matter so much.

Right now the truth of no self is more like something learned, understood, then forgotten like reading a great story. The memory of no-self comes and goes throughout the day when it’s thought about or through stopping and inquiring. So, it’s believed, understood, but it’s not lived, continuous, or internalized.
If so what wants that? What expects that? Is that a 'grass is greener in that field over there' story?

Has seeking ceased?
Who wants this, who expects this? It must be ME, and yet it is understood that there is no me.

Seeking continues. It feels quite obsessive and uncontrollable.

I’m sorry Sarah. Thank you,

Chris

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:42 pm

Hey
I expect that fear, emotions, feelings, thoughts will continue to be around and looked at always, but their impact someday, after a shift, will be mitigated, their power lessened, and some things might just dissolve and not matter so much.
Who or what fears? Do you own it? Do you bring it? Do you control it? Send it away? Does it happen to YOU or just happen? Look.
Right now the truth of no self is more like something learned, understood, then forgotten like reading a great story. The memory of no-self comes and goes throughout the day when it’s thought about or through stopping and inquiring. So, it’s believed, understood, but it’s not lived, continuous, or internalized.
Is this all thought? Is it all expectation again? What can thought know outside of itself?
Who wants this, who expects this? It must be ME, and yet it is understood that there is no me. Seeking continues. It feels quite obsessive and uncontrollable.
Is it a thought that says 'this isn't it'? Can you see it? Just sit and be with that thought, get curious about it.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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SwissKid
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Re: Self-Control

Postby SwissKid » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:57 pm

Who or what fears? Do you own it? Do you bring it? Do you control it? Send it away? Does it happen to YOU or just happen? Look.
It is the illusory I who is expecting and will be looking at. I is a made up identity. It can’t do anything. Therefore, I can’t own fear, can’t bring it, can’t control it, and can’t send it away. It just happens—it doesn't happen to me. This is my answer from what I’ve learned. BUT, it feels like it happens to me. It feels like I experience it, and it feels like I’m the one who is afraid even though I’ve learned that this can’t be the truth, and this is confusing. Why does it feel that way?
Is this all thought? Is it all expectation again? What can thought know outside of itself?
Yesterday, I drew a picture of a big box and inside the big box I drew a tiny box. I labeled the big box Awareness. I labeled the tiny box Thoughts/Self. It helps to see that Awareness can see Thoughts/Self inside itself, but Thoughts/Self can only see the false contents from within their tiny box. Inside tiny box it’s a whole made-up world that Self lives in. Everything inside is believed and believable.

Answer: Yes, it is all thought and expectation, and false.
Is it a thought that says 'this isn't it'? Can you see it? Just sit and be with that thought, get curious about it.
Yes, thought says so. I can see that it’s thought, and thoughts are false. Thoughts can’t know what is true from inside the box. BUT there is confusing, because it is hard to imagine that there is no knowledge, wisdom, or truth to be found anywhere.

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Sarah7
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Re: Self-Control

Postby Sarah7 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:58 am

Morning Chris
Yes, thought says so. I can see that it’s thought, and thoughts are false. Thoughts can’t know what is true from inside the box. BUT there is confusing, because it is hard to imagine that there is no knowledge, wisdom, or truth to be found anywhere.
And what is confused? Thought again? Thought wanting a nice tidy answer it can get its head around and control? And is there another thought that says thoughts shouldn't be there? And yet another thought that says confusion shouldn't be happening? Lol. That's funny! Simply watch and see how many 'this isn't it' thoughts there are! Look!

It does it because that's what thought does. It's a protection thing. There is love there.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.


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