the journey

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:31 am

Good.

Going back to the first page, you said you are looking for enlightenment.

Who would that person be, looking for enlightenment or awakening?

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Scot1234
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Re: the journey

Postby Scot1234 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:51 pm

"I' is a mental construct, a provisional, changing construct.
Enlightenment could be 'waking up to how things really are'.
If 'I' do not exist as a fixed permanent entity, 'I' cannot be enlightened!
But in relative terms, 'I' can be more fully aware of 'reality' and open to change.

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:23 am

"I' is a mental construct, a provisional, changing construct.
Enlightenment could be 'waking up to how things really are'.
If 'I' do not exist as a fixed permanent entity, 'I' cannot be enlightened!
But in relative terms, 'I' can be more fully aware of 'reality' and open to change.
Why "if"?

Is there an I or not?

What is the doubt?

What will be more fully aware and change?

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Scot1234
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Re: the journey

Postby Scot1234 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:01 pm

i probably cant do this any more !

I had help with the last answer from a friend who has broken the first 7 fetters.

i just cant find the answers for you.

I exist. But i am a being in flux continualy changing. There is no fixed me, i am a mental construct when my bodie dies nothing will remain except for the impact i have had on the planet and future generations.
although i am not willing to rule out the Tibetan idea of rebirth.

All the best Scot

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:58 am

Scot, in fact you just did.

Thats exactly right.

The I that exists is a mental construct shifting and impermanent just as all of the five aggregates.

Does this mental construct actually make decisions, control or do anything?

And how does that chamge how you live your life?

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Scot1234
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Re: the journey

Postby Scot1234 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:39 pm

MY MIND DOSE make decisions such as this answer and without my mind i would not be able to use this computer to write this response .

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:19 pm

Is the mind not part of the mental construct?

Did the mind or the mental construct make a free or independent decision?

Was the decision to answer a simple yes or no?

Go deep and find all the reasons you answered. Keep going until you find a free involuntary reason.

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Scot1234
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Re: the journey

Postby Scot1234 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:41 pm

yes
no
no
reluctance to give up., i cant find a free involuntary reason.

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:14 am

One way to look at decisions is to find out if you can give up some thing, some habit or anything else that you don't want?

Why can't we, if decisions were made by us?

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:50 pm

Hi Scot,

In my zen meditation group we are discussing the Heart Sutra. This may be something you can relate to.

This key teaching of Buddha points to the emptiness of the five skandhas and goes on to say that this insight of emptiness of all things including self is true liberation or enlightenment.

The sutra does not imply that the skandhas or self do not exist but that the characteristics or quality we assigned to them are empty. So a table's tableness is a mind label. To your cat, it is a hard object to be used as a hiding place and when old it is fire wood. To a physicist with a powerful microscope it is nothing but space. This is true of all forms as well as metal formations such as the mind and self.

Once you see this, there is no one making the decisions, having birth or dying... all labels attached to a sensed or perceived object without an inherent characteristic. Gil Forsdal has likened it to a movie viewed frame by frame when it ceases to be real and more of still frames.

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Scot1234
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Re: the journey

Postby Scot1234 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:15 pm

I am involved in the Brighton Budddhist centre and have been for about 14 years so i am very familiar with this sort of suggestion and I can agree their is no inherent self in anything nothing is other than the conditions that caused it to come in to being and everything such as your cats shelter, my table is subject to my label and projection.

X Scot

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:01 pm

I thought so.

When i read the heart sutra, it is clear to me that there is no mind which can make a decision.

What is in the way for you?

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Scot1234
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Re: the journey

Postby Scot1234 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:44 am

i dont think there is anything in the way for me

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kvotski
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Re: the journey

Postby kvotski » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:24 am

Hi Scot,

looks like then we have exhausted any doubts.

Is there anything else I can do for you?

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Scot1234
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Re: the journey

Postby Scot1234 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:33 am

Ok thanks . What options are there going forward ?

X Scot


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