The end is near ;-) Come on in.

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Matt
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The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:05 pm

I'm available for dialogue, if you're available to give yourself to this direct pointing with serious honesty. We'll work at a slow pace—one post a day for each of us—which will allow for questions and answers to have profound effect.
Thanks,
Matt

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Patrick
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Patrick » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:27 pm

Hi Matt,

My name is Patrick and I like to have a dialogue with you at slow pace.

Kind regards,
Patrick

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Matt
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:30 am

Hi (was that slow enough? ;-)
• What brings you here? What do you want?
• What is "I", in direct experience?
Thanks,
M

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Patrick
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Patrick » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:56 pm

It's fast enough ;)

I want to experience directly guidance to the gateless gate.

To answer your second question I look at a direct experience.

With a quit mind the attention goes to a foot.

There is only sensing, the experiencing of a sensation.

There is no need of an I to experience the sensation, sensing is direct.
It’s a way of communicating the experience to say: I experience a sensation in my left foot. There was first sensing, then followed useful labeling for communication.

Patrick

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Matt
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:10 pm


There is only sensing, the experiencing of a sensation.
There is no need of an I to experience the sensation, sensing is direct.
It’s a way of communicating the experience to say: I experience a sensation in my left foot. There was first sensing, then followed useful labeling for communication.

Patrick
Thanks for looking at direct experience, rather than thought and assumption—makes it easier!
• Was there ever a real 'I' in any sense?
• What about when the mind is NOT quiet? When Patrick got angry, lustful, and despondent, was there an 'I' there functioning?
• What is to be gained by passing through a gateless gate?
All the best,
M

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Patrick
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Patrick » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:10 pm

Hi Matt,

Was there ever a real 'I' in any sense?
No, the 'I' thought was arising with the experience and disappeared also.

What about when the mind is NOT quiet? When Patrick got angry, lustful, and despondent, was there an 'I' there functioning?
When I am 'angry' there is experience of emotions, feelings, bodily sensations, arising thoughts judging this experience, the tendency to try to change the experience.
There is no 'I' functioning in experiences like being angry, being happy, ...

What is to be gained by passing through a gateless gate?
I have the idea that more equanimity will be gained, less trying to change or to escape from the experiencing.

Patrick

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Matt
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:49 am

Sounds great.
I like that you see that equanimity is an "idea".
• Is the Gateless Gate to liberation an idea, or is it real?
• Where is the boundary between "self" and "no-self"?

My job is to make sure you're experiencing directly and not hovering in intellectual insight. But only you can attest to this. So perhaps you could take some time to really look, and answer these questions at length. Make sure your "rant" comes out of seeing.

1. Can you find a doer, or a thinker, a looker, in any shape or form in reality? Give experiential proof.

2. Explain in detail what the self is, where it comes from, and how it functions.

3. How does it feel to be liberated?

Thanks very much!
M

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Patrick
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Patrick » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:39 pm

Thanks for the questions.
It was a long process of looking again and again to these questions, seeing the essence of the question, letting the thoughts, feelings, sensations coming and going, experimenting, experiencing, seeing a clear answer, finding the words to put the answer in understandable language, …

Is the Gateless Gate to liberation an idea, or is it real?
For me the Gateless Gate is a concept that points to an event or non-event that changes the relation to reality in a radical way.

Where is the boundary between "self" and "no-self"?
‘self’ and ‘no-self’ are both part of the concept " ‘self’ – ‘no-self’ ". They are not a reality on them self.
The ‘self’ is a name for the bundle of reactions to an experience: trying to change, rejecting, escaping, manipulation. ‘no-self’ is when there is no manipulation of the experience, just accepting the experience as it is, trusting life.

Can you find a doer, or a thinker, a looker, in any shape or form in reality? Give experiential proof.
Looking at the keyboard I can say that there is seeing and the keyboard that is seen.
When I remove the keyboard the table is seen. When I remove the table the ground is seen.
When I close my eyes the darkness is seen. So the seeing and what is seen are inseparable.
It’s the mind who separates them. If there was a seener then it’s should be an object that could be seen too. Seener and seen should be also inseparable, so the seener is a construction of the mind to have the idea to be in control of the seeing. The same with doing, thinking. It’s the mind who adds the idea of a separate actor afterwards the doing, the thinking.

Explain in detail what the self is, where it comes from, and how it functions.
The self is a conditioning since childhood from the family, educators, experiences of rewards and punishments. It becomes a set of ideas about do’s and don’t do’s, trying to manipulate the experience to fit this ideas. It’s a filter to life because the trust in life as it is, is lost.

How does it feel to be liberated?
Many years ago I became aware of the conditionings that were accumulated since childhood. It felt like coat after coat was put over reality so that life became more and more weighty and confined. One by one these coats are now disappearing, dissolving . I could say that it are small liberations so that the experience of life becomes more and more direct, with more and more freedom in the experiencing. Trust in life is growing.

Patrick

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Matt
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:25 am

Thanks, Patrick, I enjoy your answers, and you're clearly "at the Gate", ready to step through, irreversibly. So please look now with everything you've got.
For me the Gateless Gate is a concept that points to an event or non-event that changes the relation to reality in a radical way. Patrick
•Take a look: who or what relates to reality?
Many years ago I became aware of the conditionings that were accumulated since childhood. It felt like coat after coat was put over reality so that life became more and more weighty and confined. One by one these coats are now disappearing, dissolving . I could say that it are small liberations so that the experience of life becomes more and more direct, with more and more freedom in the experiencing. Trust in life is growing.
Patrick
This is beautiful, but we need to see what's behind it.
•Look very deeply: can "conditioning" cover, obscure or weigh down reality?
•Who is there to experience freedom?
•You said "I" is a thought. Does the thought "I" experience anything?
•Yes, trust in life is growing! For whom?

All the best,
M

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Patrick
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Patrick » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:21 pm

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your support and the new questions.
I don’t understand what is happening since I was reading your message this early morning.
Reading the questions, they made me laughing and they still make me smiling each time I read them.
A joyfulness and excitement appeared also and are still present in the background.
Is it because these questions point directly to Reality?
Do they tell :“No escape possible from Reality”?
“Reality as it is”, “there is only Reality”, is the only answer I see to these questions.

Still looking,
Patrick

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Matt
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:02 pm

There is only Reality! Great, keep going! Go all the way with this.

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Patrick
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Patrick » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:03 pm

Hi Matt,

It feels as some fog has been cleared out

Digging in ‘there is only Reality’

Experiencing what is, in the moment, as it is, is Reality.
Thoughts, feelings, sensations, are real in the moment and then disappear.
There is a continuous coming and going, moment to moment.
Nothing is lasting. None can be kept. No-one there to hold it.
This is Reality and there is nothing but Reality


Patrick

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Matt
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:25 pm

Great work. It seems you have passed through!
Let's make sure:
For whom was there an apparent fog or clearing of fog?
Is there a person saying, "There is only Reality'"? and "This is Reality"?
Is there a Patrick who has passed through the imaginary Gate from unreality to Reality"?
Was there ever an 'I', in any sense or form?
What is total freedom from 'I' like?

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Patrick
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Patrick » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:09 pm

Hi Matt,

For whom was there an apparent fog or clearing of fog?
To no one. This is a question from the mind whose nature is to label everything and that can’t grasp that there is no one.

Is there a person saying, "There is only Reality'"? and "This is Reality"?
This saying is just arising to express what is seen.

Is there a Patrick who has passed through the imaginary Gate from unreality to Reality"?
This question sounds odd now because ’unreality is Reality’.
There was no passing through, simply seeing this.

Was there ever an 'I', in any sense or form?
No ‘I’ has ever been seen .

What is total freedom from 'I' like?
It’s a warm smiling to life.


Patrick

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Matt
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Re: The end is near ;-) Come on in.

Postby Matt » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:57 pm

Thank you, dear Patrick! Very inspiring.

Could you let us know what was the "final push" or the trigger that "helped you through the Gateless Gate"? (We can obviously use relative 'i' language, no problem.)

If you're on Facebook, let me know your screen name, and I'd like to friend you and add you to our 'aftercare' discussion site, if you would like. My FB name is Matt Openspace.


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