Seeing the Truth

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:37 pm

I can't say it cause there's no I ;)

Just kidding hehe, yea I see it :)

I recognize that when it shows up it shows up as a thought story and disappears into thin air as quickly as I stop thinking it.


Thanks so much for your help!

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:50 am

Can I ask you so called 'final questions'? Or is there something else you want to look at before answering them?

You are very welcome!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:38 pm

I keep thinking of the separation you made of the imaginary and "raw" experience of reality. I keep thinking that the imaginary is also a sort of raw experience even if it's only the mind creating it without the help of sense perceptions of the present moment.

I feel like into a legitimate experience like any other other and that it's usually judged to be less important than the experiencing of reality of the present moment. I feel like it's also a part of reality somehow, since imagined or not it still has some sort of real existence... Like it's as real as physical reality as well as illusory as physical reality since raw experience of physical reality is also constructed and shaped by the mind.

Not sure what I'm trying to get at here though...

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:53 pm

can you define in your own words what is REALITY. what is real? what is not real?

are unicorns, mikey mouse and fairies real or not?
are stories reality? how about night dreams?

what in your experience and understanding is real?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:34 pm

For me, reality is everything that is. Whether observed or not observed if it is then it has some type of reality to it.

All those things you mentioned have some sort of reality since they exist in the mind.

They can also have great impact on external reality.

I feel its all real, just in a diferent way, with a diferent characteristic, and some things only exist in the psyche while others exist outside the psyche as well.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:04 am

Ok, let's look at what word exist mean.
Define it as you see it.

What exists and what does not exist?
What are requirements for something/ somebody to exist?

Imagine you have a tail and rabbit ears. Does that exist in reality?

Again, write what feels true to you.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Everything that is exists, including what can be observed and what is not observed but still is.

Sometimes things only have a mental existence within the psyche though, like when you imagine things.

If you imagine you have a tail and rabbit ears that exists as inner images you see in your mind.

I think there is outer hearing of actual sounds, and inner hearing like thoughts.
Outer seeing of an apple for example, and the inner seeing of imagine an apple.

I feel that the inner seeing, hearing, feeling has some type of reality to it by definition that it exists enough to be observed if only in ones mind.

Does this make sense?

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:39 am

Everything that exists is.
Ok, this is good. So we are down to question what is and what isn't.
Tell me, what IS.

What isn't?

Have a good look here, is batman in the room? Can you see him, hear, touch, smell him? How do you know if he IS or he ISN'T?
Does content of the mind created images exist in the same way as the image that you see in front of you with eyes?
Can you see that what is here now, experienced, is different from what you see / imagine with closed eyes?

Where is the I, the me, is it in actuality (is) or in imagination (isn't)?

Don't think about it, just look, what is? Simply describe what IS here now. Can you find the separate self?


Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:20 pm

I dont know :(

What Im trying to say is that even imagined things have some sort of psychic reality, even if its only in your head.

I get that theres no seperate self, I cant find it if I look only when I imagine him.

Ok im ready for the final questions.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:36 pm

Thank you for answer :)
Before I ask you the final questions, can you tell me, what has changed since we started this conversation, what hasn't changed at all?
In normal everyday situations, is anything different?
You say that you get that there is no separate self, how does it feel to see this?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:44 pm

Its tricky to answer this because a week ago i met a girl and it was love at first sight for both of us. Im 29 and its the first time this has happened to me. I feel like "im" doing everything perfect because what ive really done is totally let go of identity and let life do what it wants. I feel totally connected to reality, fused with it, feeling that the will of the universe is being expressed.

I feel like ive learned to look and get out of the way sort of speak, recognize that life is happening and theres no me to struggle or put effort, or make mistakes, or whatever.

I feel total acceptance of the present moment with whatever it brings and a feeling of oneness in my direct experience.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:18 pm

How wonderful! Love makes everything look different, enchanted and sweet.

Ok, here are the final questions:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready, what feels true.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:18 pm

1. nope and nope

2. I think it starts with language... How you start believing the thought of me and you and their inherente seperateness though it is not a reality of direct experience.

3. The diference is like... Like life is effortless. Everything kind of happens by itself and its observes. Thats how i feel.

4. Mmm i dont know.

Let me answer question 5 tomorrow please...

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:31 pm

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I feel like i am somehow empty of intentión, at least egoically, but intention shows up as life expressing itself and i can just follow those puré intentions and trust them. I think life makes all the decisiones, choices, and that there is no control or freewill.. But this recognition feels totally freeing, like i can think less, trust more, connect more to intuition.

Im not sure how this all works but im sure that its working and working fine somehow. I feel like the less beliefs i hold about how it works the better.

I feel responsable for looking at what is in the present moment and not resisting lifes flow. And i feel responsable for not judging or moralizing how things should be.

I don't think i have anything else to add...

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:54 am

Thank you for answers!
Less beliefs you hold, the better, nicely said.
Could you answer the question number 4, what happened? Did you notice the moment when it became clear or not? What was that pushed you to look? Was it gradual?
The shift can be subtle, but if the line was crossed, then looking back you can see when and how it happened.
Otherwise we are dealing with intellectual understanding and a new belief...

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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