Some help would be fantastic!

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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Mon May 30, 2016 2:33 pm

there seem to be no seer, hearer, senser etc before thought. the seeing etc. is somehow is experienced as "flat" in a way, just happening in random sequence: now hearing, now seeing, now thinking, sometimes the "I am seeing"-thought pops up.the last days have been thought arising- "remember the sutra" - focus on seeing - then thought arising "I'm seeing", or just seeing happening followed by thought "it's just seeing, like the sutra". a lot of noticing of noticing these last few days.
not sure about change yet, maybe something is in the process of sinking in, don't know yet! the change I'm expecting... truly seeing through the I-illusion, that is still it, then whatever may happen can happen. at this moment no great expectations really! might just be having a good day today though :)

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Ilona
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby Ilona » Mon May 30, 2016 4:05 pm

When you say, that then whatever may happen can happen, what do you mean excatly? What is not happening by itself already? Are you in control of what arises in this moment, what is perceived through senses?
Can you talk about this please.
Truth realized will set you free.
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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Mon May 30, 2016 5:03 pm

I guess I still detect some "resistance", an inability to accept that what is happening by itself is happening by itself.
I am not in control, if I were I would use that control to remove resistance!
then what is this "resistance".. what is it based on, who resists, what does it really resist, how can it possibly resist? not sure at all, sorry I'm rambling

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Ilona
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby Ilona » Mon May 30, 2016 5:23 pm

That's ok. Let's look at that resistance closer. Where is it in the body? Find it. Let it be there for a minute and just allow the sensations to be ok.

Then have a look, what is behind it?
What is it trying to protect?
What is in need of protection?

Can you ask the resistance, what does it want, wait for the answer and write it down.

Is it ok for resistance to be here? Or it want to go?



Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Tue May 31, 2016 9:13 am

behind the resistance is fear of collapsing fantasy into reality. wanting to keep "options open", even if those options are very unclear, it's more about still having these different options. like standing at a crossroads, if you don't pick any path there's still the potential to pick whichever you like. there's also vague sense of wanting to protect something hidden inside, not wanting to expose to sunlight because truth might be painful. like having a job you don't really like but feels safe, because it's familiar.
wants resistance to go, but also the resistance to resistance seems counter-productive, fighting fire with fire

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Ilona
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby Ilona » Tue May 31, 2016 9:36 am

Good work! Yes, resisting resistance only builds more of it. It's good to acknowledge it and know that it's here to help. It's showing the way forward- places that are still unclear and could do with inspection.
What would be lost if the fantasy is seen to be just that- a fantasy?
Truth realized will set you free.
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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Tue May 31, 2016 12:29 pm

That is a very good point and something that is true from experience. resistance seem to come prior to progress a lot of the time!
That is the odd thing, the fantasy is not specific at all. it's like a mystery box, if I don't open the box it can be anything even if I don't even have any ideas of what that "anything" is. I guess in some way it's about fear of commitment. it's not that I want anything specific, it's that I fear that if anything - whatever it is - becomes real/concrete then that is it. it's almost like a fantasy of a fantasy, wanting to retain the possibility of fantasy.
like not checking the bank account to know the exact balance, even if I know that the amount will be what it is no matter if I check or not, but somehow prefer to keep myself in the dark.

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Ilona
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby Ilona » Tue May 31, 2016 12:38 pm

How interesting!
Fear of comitment?
What is behind that? Take a peek. Let me know what you find

Also, in your own words, as you see it, without quoting or rephrasing anyone, define word real. What is real?
Truth realized will set you free.
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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Tue May 31, 2016 3:14 pm

I think the fear of commitment is the fear of truly opening my own "mystery box", to not "give 100%" so that there is always something unspecified imagined to exist at the "core of being". an escape hatch. for example, like giving only 80% when doing something; "who knows what would've happened if I ever give 100%". keeping some illusion alive maybe. this fear of commitment comes and goes. there's paradoxically not that many regrets though, not much brooding over the past.
the truly real to me is what is being experienced. a thought is real in it's appearance, but the content might be fantasy. seeing a flower is real even if it might turn out it wasn't actually a flower on closer inspection.

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Ilona
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby Ilona » Tue May 31, 2016 4:33 pm

Thank you for honesty! Yes I can see that you are holding on to some quick escape route. But here we are, right where we have to be, right at the core of being.

Find the core of being. Just feel aliveness, presence, beingness..
Can you see that it's a sensation + labels?
If we name the core of being with a verb- being, does anything change? Is there anything missing? Is there a being there, hiding at the core?

What do you find?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Tue May 31, 2016 9:10 pm

very beautiful words, thank you!

at the moment, when focus on just being.. it is just being. the verb "being" feels pretty redundant. there seems to be only being, how could it be different... cannot find any "core", as in a "point" somewhere in the "middle" of being. at this moment. earlier today so much resistance now not so much.
I'll check again tomorrow

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Ilona
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby Ilona » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:57 am

Yes, it's just being, with no words needed for that.
Have a look is being on by default or you have to do something in order to be? Is there an option to be or not to be? Can being be switched off or it's always there, effortlessly?
Truth realized will set you free.
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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:28 pm

seems to be by default. nothing needs to or can be done it seems.
being can maybe switched off I guess, at least "my" being in case of death. but not like a flick of a light switch in any case (on/off on again etc). on the other hand the only truly known is being so "non-being" is a difficult concept to understand.

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Ilona
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby Ilona » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:34 pm

Nice, yes, the only thing known is being, non being is never experienced.
Good to notice that nothing needs to be done in order to be.

Now look at the voice in the head / thinking process, is that voice a being?
What is the voice talking to?
What is listening to it?
Is it something you do or its chatting away by itself?
Is the voice you?

What do you find?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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marcel2
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Re: Some help would be fantastic!

Postby marcel2 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:46 pm

the voice is certainly not a being in the same sense as being is being.
that is a good question, what indeed... it seems it's just talking, and "I" notice it. so in that sense "I" is listening, but then "I"=being. and it can't be the same "I" as in the I-thought, since the latter "appear" in the former. so maybe "I" is not a good description, since they seem to refer to different things
sometimes it's very much like "listening" to a (unfortunately often a bit boring) conversation, arguments and counter-arguments, and some of those arguments has more of a "me-flavour", for example perhaps saying, "don't think about that, that is foolish thinking".
the voice feels like at least a part of "me", like "my hands", "my body". but what is this "me" then? hmm, a bit unclear


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