Page 1 of 6

Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:04 pm
by Heketi
What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:

After years of searching for the truth, I feel that I am finally at the doorstep but I can't find the key to open the door and take a look inside. My research/studies have led me here and it feels that this will be my final destination to seeing the truth.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:

I am looking for a guide to help me see the truth of "no-self". My expectations are to be able to see the truth and recognize it beyond any doubt so that I can see what is real, and what is not. It feels like life really can't begin until this truth has been seen. Another expectation from this is, is inner peace.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:

I have been researching Buddhism on and off for many years as well as many other spiritual concepts. Up until this year, I always thought that "seeing the truth" was something beyond my reach. It wasn't until I listened to Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" audiobook that I realized that this isn't some sort of super human achievement; but something that can be achieved by anyone. Shortly thereafter, I came across the name Ciaran Healy and his blog/work (Ruthless Truth) which then led me to here, Liberation Unleashed. I've read the illustrated guide, the "Gatless Gatecrashers" eBook and many of the threads here.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 11

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:48 am
by Freddi
Hi Heketi (is this what you would like me to call you?),

Welcome to LU! I'm Fred and am ready to accompany you in this exploration.

A few quick guidelines: look to post daily/regularly or post to say if a break is needed; and set aside any other spiritual practices during our inquiry together.

If you could confirm that you have read our disclaimer, here: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
and the article on direct experience, here: http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/
and that you would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin!

Thanks!

Fred

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:02 am
by Heketi
Hi Freddi,

You may refer to me as Heketi, that is fine. I have read the disclaimer and the article on direct experience. I understand both and agree with the disclaimer. I am also fine with you as my guide. Just a side note here, I am on the Mountain Time Zone (UTC-07).


Thank you in advance for your time.

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:11 am
by Freddi
Hi again Heketi

OK let's get into expectations before anything else.
What expectations, if any, do you have about this process? Will it change you? Will it change your life?

You may have read the list we have compiled about expectations we often meet in this search, but I would like you to read it again, and observe the sensations that come up as you read them one by one. We're not interested in an intellectual discourse about this or that method, about non-dual arguments here. We're just taking a look at what is alive, in this moment. So let me know what is noticed, in the body as you read these lines (maybe some disappointment, maybe some fear, maybe some relief, maybe nothing at all):

1. This is not a way to escape your daily life.
2. This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
3. This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
4. This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
5. This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
6. This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
7. This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
8. This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
9. This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
10. This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
11. This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
12. This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
13. This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
14. This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
15. This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
16. This is not about convincing you of anything.
17. This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
18. This is not a self improvement program.

Take your time with each of the questions. Let them simmer, do their work.
I look forward to your response,

Thank you

Fred

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:14 pm
by Heketi
What expectations, if any, do you have about this process?
The only expectations is to be able to see the truth.

Will it change you?
There will be no change per say, just a drop of the belief of an actual "I."

Will it change your life?
Life will not change.


So let me know what is noticed, in the body as you read these lines (maybe some disappointment, maybe some fear, maybe some relief, maybe nothing at all):

1. This is not a way to escape your daily life.
2. This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
3. This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
4. This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
5. This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
6. This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
7. This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
8. This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
9. This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
10. This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
11. This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
12. This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
13. This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
14. This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
15. This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
16. This is not about convincing you of anything.
17. This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
18. This is not a self improvement program.
Nothing is noticed when these questions are read.

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:48 pm
by Freddi
Hi Heketi,
The only expectations is to be able to see the truth
What makes you think you're not seeing the truth, right now?

Fred

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:45 pm
by Heketi
Hi Fred,
What makes you think you're not seeing the truth, right now?
If you were to ask me, "Have 'you' ever existed in any shape or form?" I would only be able to answer intellectually and not from experience. In order words, I seem to understand this intellectually but have not yet had the realization. I can look and see that there is no seer, no hearer, and no thinker. But when it comes to seeing the "doing," I can only see this partially. For example, I can see that breathing is just happening without anyone in control. Any other "doing," it still very much feels like there is an "I" in control of it; an "I" that is at the center of the experience and by the same token, an "I" that cannot be found anywhere.


Thank you.

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:31 am
by Freddi
Hi Heketi,
I can look and see that there is no seer, no hearer, and no thinker. But when it comes to seeing the "doing," I can only see this partially. For example, I can see that breathing is just happening without anyone in control. Any other "doing," it still very much feels like there is an "I" in control of it; an "I" that is at the center of the experience and by the same token, an "I" that cannot be found anywhere.
OK Let's take a look!

1. For a moment, leave the thought stream aside and come back to what is given in direct experience, what is alive, right now. Simply acknowledge the happening of this moment. Notice what is seen, what is heard, what is touched, take some time to scan what is experienced right now.
Then point to various 'objects' around you, notice the labels that arise, pronounce them as you point. T-A-B-L-E, F-O-O-T, W-A-L-L. Do these labels accurately represent what is experienced? Is what is experienced describable at all?
Now point to a S-E-L-F. What does the finger point to? Is it the body? Is it the head? Is it the heart? Anything?

2. Now when you've read the next few lines, get up and walk a few steps around the room and SEE what happens, in real time. Don't imagine you're doing it, that's not the point of the exercise.
What is seen? Is there a self that 'does' the walking, or just a body getting up and walking?

Again, take your time with these questions. Don't let the mind come up with a ready-made answer. We're here to question all assumptions.

Thank you!

Fred

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:13 am
by Heketi
Hi Fred,
Do these labels accurately represent what is experienced? Is what is experienced describable at all?
Yes on both accounts.
Now point to a S-E-L-F. What does the finger point to? Is it the body? Is it the head? Is it the heart? Anything?
The finger points to the head. Specifically, right in the middle of the two eyes.
Now when you've read the next few lines, get up and walk a few steps around the room and SEE what happens, in real time. Don't imagine you're doing it, that's not the point of the exercise.
What is seen? Is there a self that 'does' the walking, or just a body getting up and walking?

I may need to spend a bit more time with this one right here. What is seen is the body getting up and walking but there is still the sensation that there is a "self" controlling the motions; like if there was a hard time "letting go of." There is also a sensation of lightness and tranquility around the head area when doing this exercise.


Thanks.

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:24 am
by Freddi
Hi Heketi
Fred: Do these labels accurately represent what is experienced? Is what is experienced describable at all?
Heketi: Yes on both accounts
OK let's dig a little further here. Take a piece of paper and write the word 'table' on it. Take a good look at the squiggles, the curves, the colours as if you had never seen them before.
Now place the piece of paper on top of this usually-four-legged-thingy we call 'table'. Does the visual experience of the squiggles on the paper represent accurately the 'thing' called 'table'?
Say the word out loud. Notice the inflection of the voice, the 'barking-like' quality it has, again, as though you were a newborn baby. Repeat it as often as you need until you begin to notice the sound before any interpretation.
Does the sound experience represent accurately the visual experience of what we usually call 'table'?
If so, why does person on the other side of the planet bark another sound to describe the same thing? They may say 'Tisch' or 'mesa'...

Do the same with other 'things', like 'hand', or 'window". What do you find?

Thank you

Fred

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:09 am
by Heketi
Fred,

I need some extra time with this one. I will follow up with this tomorrow.


Thanks.

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 9:54 am
by Freddi
Of course, take all the time you need! :-) Thanks for letting me know.
Fred

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:51 am
by Heketi
Hi Fred,
Does the visual experience of the squiggles on the paper represent accurately the 'thing' called 'table'?
Does the sound experience represent accurately the visual experience of what we usually call 'table'?
Do the same with other 'things', like 'hand', or 'window". What do you find?
So, I've been doing this since you first posed the question and have been applying it to different things. I find that the squiggles on any piece of paper can't accurately represent anything. This too also applies to sound.

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:57 am
by Freddi
Hi Heketi,

Thank you!
What is seen is the body getting up and walking but there is still the sensation that there is a "self" controlling the motions; like if there was a hard time "letting go of."
Could you zoom into that 'sensation' that there is a self controlling the motions?
Can you describe it, in all its physical qualities? Where is it felt? What are its colours, its size, its shape?

Thank you

Fred

Re: Need help seeing the truth.

Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 7:34 am
by Heketi
Could you zoom into that 'sensation' that there is a self controlling the motions? 
Can you describe it, in all its physical qualities? Where is it felt? What are its colours, its size, its shape?
I can't seem to describe any physical qualities of it. But it is felt in the head area; specifically around the eyes. I can't see the color(s), size or shape of it.