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Would like to explore this process

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:41 am
by pingline
I'm very curious about what happens here and drawn to see what comes up in questioning.

Thanks,
Julie

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:38 am
by vinceschubert
Hi Julie, vince here.
Curiosity is great.
What we are about here is Discovery.
Curiosity leads to Discovery.

Tell me 'who' is very curious... ?

Where is this 'who' ?

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:34 pm
by pingline
There is everything, and behind that, nothing. There is not a location for it unless I can call it everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:41 pm
by vinceschubert
So explain to me What is Self ?
How does it work ?

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:03 am
by pingline
Self is a conglomeration of thoughts.

I guess thoughts stick to thoughts, making a more complex structure. Belief is the glue? A simple thought is "there's a butterfly." But a human identity is made up of many thoughts glued together by belief, constantly changing but maintaining an essential quality of the basic identity.

Who believes? A thought sticking to a thought equals belief?

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:04 am
by vinceschubert
So Julie, are the things you are telling me from your own experience or are they from what you have read/heard ?

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:20 am
by pingline
From digging in, but I've also read about it.

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:33 am
by pingline
Part of the digging in was Byron Katie's inquiry for about three years. That brought me consistently to "Everything, and beyond that, nothing." That was about two years ago. Self seems to unraveled since then.

The reading was the usual stew of Krishnamurti, Eckhart Tolle, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Wayne Liquorman, Jed McKenna, Ramesh Balsekar, Byron Katie and others. No meditation.

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:58 am
by vinceschubert
Julie, what are your expectations about how Liberation works.
How is that different to now?

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:32 am
by pingline
I question everything about liberation, or maybe I feel myself dropping that idea. I have a former idea of it, but that seems to have subsided. Not finding any expectations.

So I guess I can't compare that to now, but I can report on now. No 24-hour cosmic consciousness here. Just variation. There is brief identification, like for a minute or two at a time, but nothing that really sticks.

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:42 am
by vinceschubert
Julie, watch your thought processes when reading the following question and report them as well as the answer to the question please.






How does it feel to be liberated ?

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm
by pingline
Thought processes:
Doubtful
It's not here yet
In the crevasse

How does it feel?

Sticky. As in stickiness of identification.

Now it feels as though there *is* an expectation of liberation (although I hesitate to separate it and call it a thing--feels like barking up the wrong tree). The expectation is that in a liberated state, so-called negativity that comes up would not be met with identification and intense suffering. There's been quite a bit of that in the past two days.

After saying that, however, it feels like I need a tongue cleaner because it's not true. It's an accurate report, and it's not true.

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:55 am
by vinceschubert
without the 'sonic boom' that some people experience, thoughts of doubt are usual.
Doubts for the sudden people come later and in a slightly different form.
The thing to remember is that doubts are thoughts and thoughts just occur and mean no more than the sound of the refrigerator.

"It's not here yet" are just thoughts of doubt, but also state something about expectations.

One of the things that you can expect is that brain conditioning (habit) will bring up lots of things but with the difference that you will see it happen and as a result that may be the last time it will appear. Sometimes it takes repeated exposure to erase it, but only for the really ingrained stuff.

This process certainly can cause a flurry of defensive thought reactions but is usually a death struggle.
Forget about cosmic consciousness - remnants of the death struggle will more likely be the norm but weakening as exposure occurs.

A process that helped me greatly during the early days was to find what i named 'the sweet spot'
It involved me looking for a recognition that what IS in my direct experience is just THAT!
WHAT IS, IS!, and THAT IS THAT!
There is no choice about now. (anything actually)
Now is a done deal, so might as well kick back and enjoy it.

Julie, you were already there but just didn't *know* it.
We have an after care group that i highly recommend and will invite you to join soon.
There is a protocol that says there needs to be three others besides me confirming my opinion that you are through the gate.
i will get you to answer a couple more question that they might find helpful in forming their opinions.
You have answered some but do them again from your experience (which will help you *deepen*)
If they don't agree with me then we will work on a bit more.

1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

2) Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

3) How does it feel to be liberated?

4) How would you explain this 'no you' thing to someone who had never heard about it ?

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:26 am
by pingline
A process that helped me greatly during the early days was to find what i named 'the sweet spot'
It involved me looking for a recognition that what IS in my direct experience is just THAT!
WHAT IS, IS!, and THAT IS THAT!
There is no choice about now. (anything actually)
Now is a done deal, so might as well kick back and enjoy it.
Ooh, that's good. Thanks. And thanks again. For some reason I keep reading that over and over.
1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
There are thoughts that arise in awareness, but none of them is actually a you or a me. There is a me-sense that arises for practical purposes or in moments of emotional pain, when thought sticks to thought and there is belief.

But is there an actual, separate me? No.
2) Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.
The self is a nodule of related thoughts that take on the appearance of a separate entity. A new human body is addressed as a separate entity with its own control and responsibility. Thoughts arise about this separateness. They stick together, and identity forms.

Thoughts sticking to thought = belief. The believed thoughts about control and responsibility bring on resistance and fear, which generally mucks up the flow of awareness through the human organism. The physical, tangible, apparently real body is also a thought, btw.
3) How does it feel to be liberated?
Like plain vanilla being. And funny. Because no one is liberated, but there is a feeling of seeing through it now. Sitting in a kind of everything-is-equal soup. There is appreciation--for now. Appreciation seemed blocked off earlier today.
4) How would you explain this 'no you' thing to someone who had never heard about it ?
Assuming that it all clicks to bring it up and I'm not going door-to-door or anything (although wouldn't that be a good sit-com?), I might ask the person who she is. And then ask her to look behind that. And behind that. And behind that. And see where it goes.

And then maybe once we've gotten as far beyond the original concept as it's possible to go, then go back to the first answer about who she is. Which is more real, the first answer, or the way beyond answer? What transcends fear? What transcends all change?

And right now my son (he's 6) just asked, "Mama, who was the first person in the world?" So I'll go spin with that for a while.

Re: Would like to explore this process

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:37 am
by pingline
One of the things that you can expect is that brain conditioning (habit) will bring up lots of things but with the difference that you will see it happen and as a result that may be the last time it will appear. Sometimes it takes repeated exposure to erase it, but only for the really ingrained stuff.
Seems relevant to add that this describes the past two years of life. There was a sonic boom (two years ago) immediately prior to what I'd call an unwinding. And what seems to be happening now is something like hacking away at a stubborn root. Or it's hacked through? Don't know, but there's relief now.