Request for Guide

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Mahesh
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Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:49 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I was reading the Gateless Gate Crasher book and then through the forums here in this website, I could see that there is no I here and it is only thoughts, infact everything is thought labelling, but when it comes to oneness and no separation I feel stuck and need help with that.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?:
I expect to see things clearly and be free of this seeking.I would very much appreciate if you could guide me into proper seeing.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
It started with reading books of Osho and doing all those meditation techniques mentioned in the book and from there to other books,techniques and since last year I was meditating very intensely and I could understand what it is all about intellectually and what it is to be free. And since reading the forum here, I could see the absence of a separate entity and I feel that if you can guide me then I will be able to see more clearly.

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Ilona
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:18 pm

Hi Mahesh,

Pleasure to meet you. I can assist you in your process. :)

All I ask is honesty and writing every day, from your experience.

Ok, you see that self is only thoughts. How about oneness, is that different? What does oneness mean in your understanding?
And how do you see, what is separate from what? How do you perceive separateness?

Don't rush with the answer, have a good look and write what you notice.

Kind regards
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Mahesh
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:32 am

Hi Ilona,
Oneness for me is the true reality expressing itself, no one there to control it, no doer , all is just a happening, there is no this, that or the other,evrything is matter, boundary.A Play.
Yes oneness and seperation is also a concept that this mind have acquired, like the self.
Also Ilona, I would like to share with you that, though I see that these are all thoughts, there is a BUT with it,(but what if I, mind is playing games on me), and again I see that these are only thoughts and have no value. It seems like I am trying to figure this out and keep it as a permanent state.

I see through my eyes(i dont know, if you meant this by the question), I can see that there is this computer, and a table, and a human body (which i believe is me) and many other things, seperate from eachother, (I have this concept that, it is going to be like how a baby percieves things, without boundaries, only colours).
Yes, I can see that it is just thoughts labelling everything in the field of vision, giving rise to the idea of seperation. I percieve separateness through thoughts.

I am really thrilled to be doing this with you Illona.Thank you so much.

Love
Mahesh

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Ilona
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:44 pm

Thank you very much.
All is just happening, including thinking. Can you find what it is that you actualy do? What is not on automatic?
Look through the day, notice how actions arise, did you do that?

Haha, what do you mean seeing like a baby?
We learned to speak and use language, baby know know words. If you see what is in front of your eyes without paying attention to thoughts, that's pretty much it. Boundaries are all made up by language. No thinking about boundaries = no boundaries.

Same like no thinking about separateness and oneness= what is, which is whole and complete.

Now look, what is separateness in your experience, how is it perceived? How do you know it is separateness, not anger or despair?
Where is the sensation?
Is there a perceived to which the sensation is happening?

Really look at that sensation and feel it fully. Is it ok for it to be there?


Write what shows up.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Mahesh
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:24 am

Hi Ilona,
Everything is on automatic,I dont do anything, there is only a noticing of the actions when its taking place or after an action is completed.
Also sometimes when deciding something, thoughts seems to come and make it seem like it helped make the decision.

When looking now at separateness, it is perceived as this bodily experience, which the thought takes ownership of. The sense of me is the separation.

I dont know if it is separateness, maybe its story the mind has come up with for the sensation, looking closer there is a feeling of despair, meaninglessness, nothing to look forward to.
The sensation is in the chest area.
No, there is no perceived the sensation is just there. When looking at the sensation the body relaxed and yes it is ok for it to be there.

I am a little confused.

Love
Mahesh

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Ilona
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:36 pm

Good work!
What are you a little confused about?

Yes, good to notice, that there is no feeler, just sensation. Can a sensation itself feel anything?
Have a closer look at how thoughts and feelings are connected. Find some strong through that triggers intense emotional reaction. Repeat that thought and watch how sensations arise.
Are you making these sensations come up or they arose simultaneously with trigger thought (label?)
Can you switch the feeling on and off?


Write what you notice.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Mahesh
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:37 pm

Hi Ilona,
I was feeling a sensation in the head which the mind labelled as confusion.
No a sensation itself cannot feel, a feeler is required to label it, maybe labelling and feeling is the same thing.
When i did this exercise I found that the thought is immediately followed by the emotion(sensation labelled).
No, the feeling cannot be switched off.

Thank You
Mahesh

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Ilona
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:30 pm

great!
let's look closer at how mind functions as a labeling machine.
look around slowly, notice things, objects, notice how mind immediately labels what is being seen and some stories arise, triggering feelings. spend some time observing this faculty of the mind to name what is being perceived. first with eyes open, then with eyes closed.
notice, how where focus goes, labeling follows. mind tells what is being perceived like a sports commentator.

can you stop mind from labeling?
are you doing the labeling or it happens on it's own?
can you see how body reacts to the labels and stories?

describe what you find out.

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Mahesh
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:14 pm

Hi Ilona,
I had fun experimenting today, I could see that mind is a labelling machine. When i looked around i could see that wherever focus goes mind labels it and it happens so fast, and it is happening by itself, and I cannot stop the mind from labelling.
When i was looking around, there was labelling wherever focus was and after sometime, the focus returned to the body and the upperbody started moving back and forth on its own, and with closed eyes the mind was labelling the sounds and there were story about some sounds, after sometime the focus again came back to the body and this time the body was relaxed breathing deeply.

Thank you
Love,
Mahesh

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Mahesh
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:54 pm

Hi Again,
I forgot to mention something, after the looking, I had a question about if this is what going in is, when the focus is turned in? , thought I should ask this.

Love
Mahesh

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Ilona
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Ilona » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:43 am

Good question.
Now explore, what happens, when focus goes to feelings, sensations.. What happens when focus goes on thinking itself?
Is there a thinker?
Is there a feeler?
Is there a perceiver?

Investigate that and write what you find.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Mahesh
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:01 pm

Hi Ilona,
When focusing on feelings there is a noticing of feelings and then comes thoughts with what the feeling is and why it is there, when the thought cant find the story or is not agreeing, it causes another sensation in the body, which is felt again when focused, and so on ..
What is here is thoughts coming spontaneously, typing happening feeling sensations in the body, noticing a sensation in the body and there is no one here to do any of these, it all happens like that, again the feelings are there, and again it says its because i am not having any clue whats happening, it just happening, and feels nice to type this spontaneously but again the thougt comes will it stay, it is being noticed as just a thought and i cant even believe that this is happening, it is confused now.

Love
Mahesh

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Ilona
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Ilona » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:43 am

Thank you for looking! Good work.
Now let's do a little exercise, that will demonstrate how labels applied affect what is happening.
http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html
There is an exercise in this post, do it here. Observe what is happening with the body and sensations, when actions are labelled differently.
What's the difference?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Mahesh
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Mahesh » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:09 pm

Hello Ilona,
With first exercise, there was a tiring feeling, feeling heaviness, uncomfortable sensation. With the second exercise, there was an authentic climate around, body felt energized, more relaxed and composed.While doing the second exercise I thought came up, it was ignored and it just went away.
Thank you for taking time for doing this, really appreciate it.

Love
Mahesh

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Ilona
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Re: Request for Guide

Postby Ilona » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:59 am

good work! Can you see that description does not affect what is happening, but affects how you feel about what is happening?
what is that I in description? is it something that is doing actions?
is there i in actuality?
where is it?
how is it experienced?

write what you find.
sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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