Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

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Ilona
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Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:49 am

What are your expectations? What do you imagine that will happen when you get liberated?
Just lay it all down here with 100% honesty. :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:06 am

What are your expectations? What do you imagine that will happen when you get liberated?
Just lay it all down here with 100% honesty. :)

My expectation?...to know real freedom...what will happen?...I will just be myself like when I was a child, before labels appeared...

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:02 am

Are you saying that all thought will vanish?
Truth realized will set you free.
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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:37 pm

Well, there might be a wishful thinking that negative thoughts will vanish :) I have had momentary experiences where all thoughts vanished and all that was left was pure consciousness. All I saw (not with the body's eyes because my eyes were shut) was either a flash of white light or in other instances complete darkness...? It felt like a complete releif. No time. No space. No thoughts. No emotions. Just a presence. Impossible to describe with words. When the experiences ends, thoughts and emotions reappears. Since I started with the spiritual journey, I notice that there is actually more thinking then ever. More thoughts. At least it feels that way. Maybe because I am more aware. I don't know. There is also fears because I do not know what those experiences are. I can not understand them. And sometimes I want to go back there and stay there.

Thoughts does not have to vanish for me, but I would like to not take them seriously any longer. Especially angry thoughts. Those ones seem to scare me the most.

Voila...that's what came up as honestly as I can....

Thanks 315!

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:47 pm

cool, thank you.
No, thought will not vanish. they will become less and less sticky. the sticky point inside is gonna get less serious until it stops being sticky at all.

ok, let's look at thoughs wtih thought...
where do thoughts come from? can you control them? if so, can you know, what is your next thought gonna be or cut one in half? can a thought think?

tell me what you see here.
Truth realized will set you free.
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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:30 pm

Where do thoughts come from?
I don't know. I always thought that they were coming from me. That I was the one thinking them. Creating them. Sometimes I think they come from nowhere...like I came from nowhere. Seems like a mystery.

Can I control them?
Hum...I did try positive thinking ;)...did not work. So no I can not control them.

Can I know what is my next thought gonna be or cut one in half?
No I can not know what my next thought will be. Even when planning ahead of time. With experiences, I can see that plans can fall away pretty quick ;) Cut in half?...well sometimes I can catch myself thinking too much and tell myself not to go there or to stop. But to really cut it in half...well a thought seems to be kind of invisible so there would be no way for me to cut it in half.

Can a thought think?
I don't think so. Thought is thinking. Thinking is thought. One and the same I beleive. Not sure.

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Ilona
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:43 pm

ok good. so can you see that thoughts apear and dissapear by themselves without a thinker?
now let's check what is up with labels.

thoughts are labels and mind labels every experience on authomatic. so breathing happens, becomes i breath.
sitting happens-- i sit. walking happens-- i walk. play withit for a bit. notice that i is just a label too. what is behind the I? can you look?

look at how labels are not things, feelings, thoughts, but just pointers to things, feelings thoughts..
now look at word seacher. is there a sercher? -- i search.

tel me what you see here..
thank you.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:26 am

Okay...I just washed the dishes(litteraly ;)...so...mind labels on authomatic...washing the dishes happened...and it became...I wash the dishes...just a pointer but not the actual real thing...How can a pointer know what it is pointing?...I am looking at that...so I do not know truly the "what" I am labeling..."I" "wash" "the" 'dishes"...all equally labels. I would only be revewing the past experiences in my mind with no relevance to what is really happening or taking place.

If I look behind the I, I do not see anything. At least not with my eyes. Maybe there is something invisible that the body eyes can not see. I could never know that for sure. But is what I can not see with the bodies eyes real? What is real?

I never thought of it that way : that the movement seems to take place and the labeling comes after...I can see that 'it' wants ownership...'I did that'...hum...okay

pointers...like directing the mind to some place in the environment

Searcher...When I came back from work I was searching for my bank card...Is there a searcher?...well it appeared as if I was the searcher searching for a bank card...searching happened and it became i search. Can I put my finger on a searcher? Well I could put my finger on my body. But is the body the searcher? What is in the body that makes it search or do anything?....ehe...I can not find it! I do not know where it is? And that is if there is a "it' anywhere to be found.

Thank to you!

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:14 am

You are doing very well.
Now list all things that you own as labels. See if they are true.
Start with I am .....-er

Then look at the list and notice. All identity is assumed. not mistaken, but assumed.
Let's see what you've got here.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:08 am

Just for clarification for the list. Are you talking about roles, objects, qualities or faults...I am not sure I understand.

I am_____er....can you give me an exemple?

What do you mean by all identity is not mistaken?
You mean it is not a mistake, not an error. Just 'IS' kind of thing?

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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:57 am

I am just going to write here to expose everything as I go along with the process. I do not want to hide anymore. I feel an anxiety. It's like I am afraid of something but I do not know what it is. Am I afraid to wake up?..Fear of the unknown. It is as if something do not want to let go, like something wants to take control...Where is the "I" that is afraid?...hum...when I look for it, the anxiety seems to vanish...interesting...

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Ilona
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:17 pm

Identity is assumed. All identity. Make a list of what you think you are and look at it from this angle.
I am seeker, for example.
I am that...
Truth realized will set you free.
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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:06 pm

Okay Ilona...thanks...here we go...things I own as labels:

I think I am a 45yo women. I think I am a caregiver. I think I am a registered nurse. I think I am a mother, daughter and sister. I think I am a spiritual partner. I think I am a student of ACIM. I think I am a smoker. I think I am Light. I think I am pure spirit. I think I am One with all that is. I think I am eternal life. I think I am truth.

Those are all assumed identities...assumptions...I can see that yes...How can I know for sure that I am all those things when they are just thoughts coming from nowhere to be found?...hum...its kind of funny lol. Who or what made up those labels????...Well I could say that I hear all kinds of labels and choose the ones that resonates with me.

Are they true?...I could never know that for sure...no...those labels can not be true...just symboles...like in a play...a script...imagined...invented...meanignless...

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Ilona
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:33 pm

What happens if is taken out from the list? Can you rewrite it so that it's only verbs there, no nouns, no identity.

Like for example- being mother, smoking, seeking... Etc.
What do you notice?

Is there an entity behind I?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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joseemca
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:55 am

Here we go...

Verbs...aging, being a women, caregiving, nursing, mothering, being a daughter, being a sister, being a spiritual partner, studying, smoking, illuminating, purifying, spiritualizing, joining, living, eternalizing, being true...

What do I notice? Well...it become the act of___________. Like a doing of some kind. It is happening, like it or not...without me...like breathing when I am sleeping at night. Without a me doing anything about it or for it to happen.


Is there an I entity behind I?...I can not find an entity anywhere...empty space...zipi zipo!!! :). I can see it as nothing. There is nobody.


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