Imperium, are you ready?

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:22 pm

PS; Ilona, I just saw that there is choice and choosing happens, but there is no chooser. it's shaky.

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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Ilona » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:31 pm

yes my friend. there is no chooser, but choice happening. you are moving fast. :) let's keep going.

now look at mind as a labelling machine, it's purpose is to name what senses perceive, to label feelings and narrate the story.

sit for a couple of minute with closed eyes and notice what mind does. don't pay much attention to content, but at how this labelling mechanism works. sound is heard, thoughts tell what happened, a tingling sensation comes thoughts label it and so on. just pay attention to how there is something experienced and labelled right after.

see how everything runs on automatic.
is there anything that is not on automatic? does this human organism need a driver?

over to you...
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:37 pm

yes my friend. there is no chooser, but choice happening. you are moving fast. :) let's keep going.

now look at mind as a labelling machine, it's purpose is to name what senses perceive, to label feelings and narrate the story.

sit for a couple of minute with closed eyes and notice what mind does. don't pay much attention to content, but at how this labelling mechanism works. sound is heard, thoughts tell what happened, a tingling sensation comes thoughts label it and so on. just pay attention to how there is something experienced and labelled right after.

see how everything runs on automatic.
is there anything that is not on automatic? does this human organism need a driver?

over to you...
Ilona
Yes, I see how the mind is a relentless labeling machine. Every thing is labeled. I see it.

It's automatic and seems none stoppable. Yes everything does seem to be on automatic pilot. In this observation it seems that the human organism does not need a driver.
(Yet the knee-jerk reaction is that it does have a driver. Is this due to the fear that wants to protect this sense of a separate self? Just curious.)

I'm with you so far, and so grateful for your kindness & generosity.
Imperium

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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Ilona » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:28 am

Good good, so yes, mind is labelling everything. Now let's look at the labels themselves.

At some point when we learn to speak we learn to say word I. Does that mean we are given an I / me?
And we grow up never questioning that. But word I is like an agreement to use this short sound when we talk about this body/ mind to others instead of using name. Everyone is called I. It does not automaticly make a separate I that drives the body around.

If you look closer at breathing- does it happen by itself or there is this I that breathes, because the language says so?
Is there walking happening or is there an I that walks? From my exp, while walking there is a lot of thinking going on about whatever, but not about walking. same with everything. Test it. Don't take my word for it. Just notice that I is not a doer, it's a label. Read my lates blog post if you haven't, about the language. Then see if it's true in your experience.

Write to me your observations.
Fear of unknown is one of biggest fears. All you need to do is look behind it. Try again.

Lots of love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:34 pm

Good good, so yes, mind is labelling everything. Now let's look at the labels themselves.

At some point when we learn to speak we learn to say word I. Does that mean we are given an I / me?
And we grow up never questioning that. But word I is like an agreement to use this short sound when we talk about this body/ mind to others instead of using name. Everyone is called I. It does not automaticly make a separate I that drives the body around.

If you look closer at breathing- does it happen by itself or there is this I that breathes, because the language says so?
Is there walking happening or is there an I that walks? From my exp, while walking there is a lot of thinking going on about whatever, but not about walking. same with everything. Test it. Don't take my word for it. Just notice that I is not a doer, it's a label. Read my lates blog post if you haven't, about the language. Then see if it's true in your experience.

Write to me your observations.
Fear of unknown is one of biggest fears. All you need to do is look behind it. Try again.

Lots of love.
“But the word I is like an agreement to use this short sound when we talk about this body/mind to others instead of a using name.”
and
“I is not a doer, it's a label.”
Ilona
Yes, as your words bring attention to it, it’s also true in my experience. “I is not a doer, it's a label”.
I like the way you phrase it. I can see that the “I” sound is used to refer to this body/mind when speaking to others. But it’s not a separate entity that drives the body around or manages its affairs. A label not a doer.
In the moment this seems very clear. When I brush my teeth I’m thinking of everything else but my teeth.
When I put attention to it I can see that breathing, walking, hearing, seeing, talking, eating, sleeping, driving, dancing… happens without the need for management by an “I”. I’ve had the experience of driving my car somewhere and not remembering the drive because the mind was so busy with thoughts. I read your blog, “The Trick of Language”… yes it’s also true in my experience. So far this is seen right now.

Question: Though in the moment I’m understanding this and seeing it in myself, I also see I am having an expectation of some sort of breakthrough where the “I” will disappear. Seems this idea comes from spending so many years in the seeking enlightenment crowd here in the USA. Last evening when I first read your words and the suggestions were fresh there was clarity. This morning upon awakening, this “I” is in the forefront and there’s a bit of a struggle to get back to the pointer that “I is not a doer, it's a label”. Is this to be expected?

“Fear of unknown is one of biggest fears. All you need to do is look behind it. Try again.”
Yes, I experienced in myself that fear of the unknown is a biggie. The worry/anxiety that is experienced here is based in the unknowns in life.
I’m a little cloudy about your invitation to look behind it. Are you pointing to the lack of an “I” and therefore the need for protection not being necessary because the “I” is only a belief? I may have just answered my own question. Let me know.
Thank you for your encouragement. I can use it. There’s an expectation that “I” need to “get” something here and the fear of failure is present.
Imperium

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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Ilona » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm

Is there an I to get anything?
The best description I came across so far that seeing this is 'so .. Unticlimatic.'.
Of course there is an expectation for something to get, something to happen, but it's not a moment of boom! It's a process that has been going on for a while and came to the point of resolution.

Tell me, is there an I that can get anything?

And if fear arises, don't think about it, just look at what is behind the fear. Like if you would do from another side.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:53 pm

Is there an I to get anything?
The best description I came across so far that seeing this is 'so .. Unticlimatic.'.
Of course there is an expectation for something to get, something to happen, but it's not a moment of boom! It's a process that has been going on for a while and came to the point of resolution.

Tell me, is there an I that can get anything?

And if fear arises, don't think about it, just look at what is behind the fear. Like if you would do from another side.
Ilona
I feel so fortunate to have your guidance.
First I want to report that I’ve noticed that since we’ve been communicating the anxiety I awaken with everyday is a little less every day.

Ok, based on what we’ve covered so far, I can see that the “I” is only a thought and the notion of “getting anything” is also a thought. So their all just thoughts therefore there is no “I” to get anything. The thoughts trigger the fear, then the fear triggers more thoughts and on and on.
Ok, so this is a process of exploring beliefs.. like the dropping of the belief in Santa Claus. Wow I’ve been misunderstanding this point for decades.

Logically, no there is no “I” that can get anything. It’s an imaginary “I” that thinks it can get an imaginary something. I see you keep pointing me at this, and I keep seeing it but even though I understand it and can mostly feel it, this sense of “I” has a strong hold. I am not giving up.

Ok I’m letting this fear rise. The fear is arising and some tears are here now. My stomach and my heart are tight and my breathing is getting difficult. Ilona I want this so bad and yet there’s no “I” and nothing to get.. but it feels like there is. I want to say, Oh God help me… from the depths of my being, but that’s a questionable thought also.
As I look behind the fear it seems like a holding onto this idea of a “me”. A “me” needing to be a somebody, somewhere. A “me” desperately trying to hold on and be in control. A “me” trying to do its job.
Many tears in this moment and feeling so helpless. So afraid to fail, to be weak, to be helpless & hopeless. The wish is here for something to help me.. help me see what to do, help me to see what I’m doing wrong or not getting. It’s strong now. If this “me” is a thought, then why does it feel so real. Why so much suffering over thoughts. Why can’t I see this suffering is only a belief in thoughts. Why doesn’t this suffering stop when I see it’s only thoughts.

Thanks for listening.
Imperium

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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Ilona » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:44 pm

First I want to report that I’ve noticed that since we’ve been communicating the anxiety I awaken with everyday is a little less every day.
nice! :)
As I look behind the fear it seems like a holding onto this idea of a “me”. A “me” needing to be a somebody, somewhere. A “me” desperately trying to hold on and be in control. A “me” trying to do its job.
very good, there is a 'me' there trying to be in control.. thank that 'me' bow to it. feel the appreciation for it. let it be there, just stay with it, give it imaginary hug. then once again, look behind. what is there?

keep going. very close. trust the process. let whatever come up be ok. notice, that noticing happens, with label or not. notice that feeling of being, aliveness, receptivity is here, as always with label or without. this is and is not gonna disappear. there is nothing to disappear.
this sense of “I” has a strong hold
see if that sense changes if you do not label it I...

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:31 pm

First I want to report that I’ve noticed that since we’ve been communicating the anxiety I awaken with everyday is a little less every day.
nice! :)
As I look behind the fear it seems like a holding onto this idea of a “me”. A “me” needing to be a somebody, somewhere. A “me” desperately trying to hold on and be in control. A “me” trying to do its job.
very good, there is a 'me' there trying to be in control.. thank that 'me' bow to it. feel the appreciation for it. let it be there, just stay with it, give it imaginary hug. then once again, look behind. what is there?

keep going. very close. trust the process. let whatever come up be ok. notice, that noticing happens, with label or not. notice that feeling of being, aliveness, receptivity is here, as always with label or without. this is and is not gonna disappear. there is nothing to disappear.
this sense of “I” has a strong hold
see if that sense changes if you do not label it I...

much love.
Very good, there is a 'me' there trying to be in control.. Thank that 'me' bow to it. Feel the appreciation for it. Let it be there, just stay with it, give it imaginary hug. Then once again, look behind. What is there?
Ilona, I don’t want to give you an answer that is correct, I want to give you my honest experience and I understand that's what you expect.
I’m not certain that what I’m about to say is the result of being familiar with all the non-dual books & workshops, my direct experience, or both, but what’s there behind this ‘me’ is ‘no-me’… no thing… emptiness, presence awareness. The ‘me’ is a thought appearing in awareness. The reason there’s doubt is because there’s still this experience of feeling like a ‘me’… until I look and investigate. So I’m ‘oscillating’ back & forth with it... 'me'.. 'no-me'.
Keep going. Very close. Trust the process. Let whatever comes up be ok. Notice, that noticing happens, with label or not. Notice that feeling of being, aliveness, receptivity is here, as always with label or without. This is and is not gonna disappear. There is nothing to disappear.
I am with you 100% and committed to keep going and hope you will stay with me through the Gate. I trust you and the process and am forever grateful for your kindness & patience. You are an Angel.

Per your recommendation I feel comfortable in letting what comes come. Including doubts/fears/tears. I will add posts often when I feel I need to share. I am with this all day and into the night. This is my life.

I am familiar with noticing and will continue to notice that noticing happens, with or w/o labels.. and to notice awareness/aliveness. I already often throughout the day/night bring the attention to this aliveness of which you speak. I know it as presence awareness. It’s present & aware… always.
"This sense of “I” has a strong hold"
See if that sense changes if you do not label it I...
Yes it seems to.
Imperium

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:31 am

First I want to report that I’ve noticed that since we’ve been communicating the anxiety I awaken with everyday is a little less every day.
nice! :)
As I look behind the fear it seems like a holding onto this idea of a “me”. A “me” needing to be a somebody, somewhere. A “me” desperately trying to hold on and be in control. A “me” trying to do its job.
very good, there is a 'me' there trying to be in control.. thank that 'me' bow to it. feel the appreciation for it. let it be there, just stay with it, give it imaginary hug. then once again, look behind. what is there?

keep going. very close. trust the process. let whatever come up be ok. notice, that noticing happens, with label or not. notice that feeling of being, aliveness, receptivity is here, as always with label or without. this is and is not gonna disappear. there is nothing to disappear.
this sense of “I” has a strong hold
see if that sense changes if you do not label it I...

much love.
Very good, there is a 'me' there trying to be in control.. Thank that 'me' bow to it. Feel the appreciation for it. Let it be there, just stay with it, give it imaginary hug. Then once again, look behind. What is there?
Ilona, I don’t want to give you an answer that is correct, I want to give you my honest experience and I understand that's what you expect.
I’m not certain that what I’m about to say is the result of being familiar with all the non-dual books & workshops, my direct experience, or both, but what’s there behind this ‘me’ is ‘no-me’… no thing… emptiness, presence awareness. The ‘me’ is a thought appearing in awareness. The reason there’s doubt is because there’s still this experience of feeling like a ‘me’… until I look and investigate. So I’m ‘oscillating’ back & forth with it... 'me'.. 'no-me'.
Keep going. Very close. Trust the process. Let whatever comes up be ok. Notice, that noticing happens, with label or not. Notice that feeling of being, aliveness, receptivity is here, as always with label or without. This is and is not gonna disappear. There is nothing to disappear.
I am with you 100% and committed to keep going and hope you will stay with me through the Gate. I trust you and the process and am forever grateful for your kindness & patience. You are an Angel.

Per your recommendation I feel comfortable in letting what comes come. Including doubts/fears/tears. I will add posts often when I feel I need to share. I am with this all day and into the night. This is my life.

I am familiar with noticing and will continue to notice that noticing happens, with or w/o labels.. and to notice awareness/aliveness. I already often throughout the day/night bring the attention to this aliveness of which you speak. I know it as presence awareness. It’s present & aware… always.
"This sense of “I” has a strong hold"
See if that sense changes if you do not label it I...
Yes it seems to.
Imperium
Ilona
In re-reading my response to you I can see how often the "I" shows up. An "I" feeling fear, an "I" weeping, an "I" having doubt, and "I" noticing..... 'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'-'I'......

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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Ilona » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:38 am

Great work, my friend.

I pops up? So what. You saw that there is emptiness behind it. Go back to that emptiness, stare at it. Get familiar with it, focus on it, let it wash over all that is still arising as doubt. See that the I is empty and it's ok for it to be here, it's just a word. I use word I as without it it would be weird to communicate. It does not mean that an entity pops up.
Just another thought passing buy.
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:33 pm

Great work, my friend.

I pops up? So what. You saw that there is emptiness behind it. Go back to that emptiness, stare at it. Get familiar with it, focus on it, let it wash over all that is still arising as doubt. See that the I is empty and it's ok for it to be here, it's just a word. I use word I as without it it would be weird to communicate. It does not mean that an entity pops up.
Just another thought passing buy.
Much love.
keep going. very close. trust the process. let whatever come up be ok. notice, that noticing happens, with label or not. notice that feeling of being, aliveness, receptivity is here, as always with label or without. this is and is not gonna disappear. there is nothing to disappear.
Ilona
I awoke in the middle of the night and lay awake. I could see behind closed eyes that the mind is a labeling machine and that all the thoughts & feelings appear only in the now of this aliveness/awareness. There is only now. I could also see the attention wavering between thoughts and awareness... but even that wavering happened in awareness. There's always only now.
Imperium

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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Ilona » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:44 pm

perfect. yes, there is only now.. this is it.

so is there a you? is there a gate to cross?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:58 pm

perfect. yes, there is only now.. this is it.

so is there a you? is there a gate to cross?
Ilona
I'm feeling very shaky at the moment, and much anxiety is coming up this morning. I can see this as happening in the space of now, here. And, on a feeling/visceral level the 'me' is running strong. This feels so real. Jumpy solar plexus. Feeling nervous and uncertain. Yet something is watching.
I don't know how to answer your question. It seems like both yes and no. Is this expected?
Love,
Imperium

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Imperium
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Re: Imperium, are you ready?

Postby Imperium » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:10 pm

You said:
"Go back to that emptiness, stare at it. Get familiar with it, focus on it, let it wash over all that is still arising as doubt."

Ilona
I went back and read your suggestion from yesterday. I am coming back to the emptiness over & over. I lay down on my bed and focus on it. It seems this is the best remedy?
Really shaky this morning.. like I want to crawl out of my skin.


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