Durian, what brings you here?

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:45 am

Hi, had another couple days of over-busyness and under-energy so, more from 'me' soon. :)

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Ilona
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:45 am

Ok :)

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:10 pm

No, there is no such thing as self itself. Only 'sense of self' or 'perception of self' or 'thoughts of self' or 'belief in self' which are constantly changing. No set 'thing' called self. No 'self' identity that holds up to investigation. I want to be 100% truthful so I don't want to deny that there are still often these other aspects relating to someone who is trying to see no self. :)

The best way to clear the system is investigating your current beliefs. What is THE most prescious belief that you are holding on?
Find it.
Rip it open.
Next.
Repeat.

Is this an invitation to do that process here or just a general suggestion?

Thanks!

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:15 am

Another comment, wednesday evening I watched Adyashanti's web radio show. He was talking about no self and no identity, etc. I have been listening to him for a few years, but the other night his words got through deeper than they I remember them doing before, like there was more recognition or understanding of what he was talking about. That stood out as cool.

Also there is this sense of 'freedom just around the corner' somehow, like, freedom to not be held back by so many limiting beliefs and fears as much, but sort of like there is stalling.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:52 am

Oh yes, once you start seeing things as they are instead of through the lens of imagined me, them words of masters start making sense.

Yes, there is no actual self to be found as its been created by the mind as a reference point. Then it's been taken for a real entity and the confusion started. It takes time to unconfuse the mind, but once the core is knocked out, it's much easier.

It's a bit like living life on earth and always looking at the sky. Clouds/ thoughts are so important. This cloud is too dark, that one is too big, that one could be in a better shape, and the stormy clouds are not welcome. When we live lost in a head all we see is thoughts. These thoughts are covering sun- joy and peace. And it seems that these clouds are all there is. Even more, it seems that it's me that is in charge of the clouds, so there is constant fight with them, trying to control, deny, push and pull.

Then one day clouds are seen for what they are- just passing by pieces of fog..
Thoughts are seen as appearances.
We can let them float and do what they do.
Then look down- omg! There is life here!
No need to look up all the time, this life on the ground is so beautiful.

No need to try to control clouds as there in no control over them. It's impossible task that takes so much energy and still no tangible results.

So we still see them and feel the weather/ mood, that colours the day, but there is no more attachment to them. Life can be explored and enjoyed.

How does it feel to see this?

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:08 pm

Well like you say, there are still plenty of moods and forgetting things are not so serious, but there is a surfacing excitement about life as more open-ended. This big worry of reaching the deathbed and having huge regret for a life wasted because of fear and stagnation—there is an option emerging to not take that route. Like living in fear can be let go of (not that it has been let go of yet). It is an option presenting itself but it is not the default mode yet. One example is seeing people who I thought were trying to control me or who I was trying to please, as just operating in their stories but having no power—how can their stories have any power? Starting to care less what others think—OMG!

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:57 am

Great to hear!
What does it matter what others think of you, when it's all in your imagination only.

Fear is still holding you back? Talk to it. Bring it closer. accept it and thank it for all it is doing for you. It is built in protection mechanism, examine it with full curiocity- how does it affect thoughts, how does it affect body, how does it affect actions? Make friends with fear. It's only showing you the way home. There is something there that hasn't been examined. What is it? What needs to be protected? Is it true?

What would you be without fear?

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:56 pm

Fear is still holding you back? Talk to it. Bring it closer. accept it and thank it for all it is doing for you. It is built in protection mechanism, examine it with full curiocity- how does it affect thoughts, how does it affect body, how does it affect actions?
Physically it is like putting on the brakes. It freezes things up. How does it affect thoughts? Well fear is thoughts, and sensations. They are fearful thoughts, assuming the worst to come in the future unless staying frozen.

Make friends with fear. It's only showing you the way home. There is something there that hasn't been examined. What is it? What needs to be protected? Is it true?
I am told it is for safety & protection. It knows from past experience, too big of changes can cause real danger to physical and emotional health. Letting go of fear would allow room for change (the brakes come off) which could be too dangerous.

What would you be without fear?
Free! :D

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:19 pm

Danger to emotional health? Is it true?
What needs to be protected, really?

Letting go of fear would certainly make you open to what is.
Is this not what the fear is holding you from?
Take a look.

Is fear of freedom bigger than desire for freedom? Are you letting the fear win this game? Face it head on, without any reservations. Ask the fear, what is it protecting, precisely, see if there is anything that NEEDS to be protected.

What comes up here?
Bring that fear closer for examination. What is behind it?

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:02 am

I realized after I posted the last response that I forgot to answer the question: Is it true? Heh, oops. More investigation tonight.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:01 pm

I will be working with this still today because the fear is huge today. Very dominating. There is another time of a big decision needing to be made, that the mind is making very critical. A note: therapist says this decision-chaos is due to insecure attachment as baby from neglect & trauma. The energy of fear is in the system strongly. I know psychology is something else (and sometimes have the thought that if i see clearly i have to quit therapy and that is another fear), but I'm not sure if seeing clearly will cancel this programmed fear response or bypass this or if it is still just there needing to be played out. If it is still in the system, not sure if it can be bypassed by seeing no self or if it is just programming that has to wind down with being present for it.

Danger to emotional health? Is it true?
What needs to be protected, really?

Physical health & safety. If that is jeopardized, then the emotional health goes down because the thoughts hate illness & danger or because mind & body are inseparable anyway. I can't know this to be true but am basing it on past experiences. Actually what's silly is right now the fear is making me physically sick anyway so it is proving itself wrong due to the stress it causes itself.

Letting go of fear would certainly make you open to what is.
Is this not what the fear is holding you from?
Take a look.

Fear is a bunch of thoughts & feelings & sensations and I am staying with the feelings but is there really a choice to let go of them? Right now it seems like fear is 'what is.'

Is fear of freedom bigger than desire for freedom? Are you letting the fear win this game?
I wish I knew. Right now it seems like yes, but I don't feel in control of how much fear is there.
Face it head on, without any reservations.
This is today's mission.

Ask the fear, what is it protecting, precisely, see if there is anything that NEEDS to be protected.
What comes up here?

Safety. But it is just a thought that fear will bring safety by limiting movement. I do not know that this is true. But it is the answer that comes from asking the fear in the body.

Bring that fear closer for examination. What is behind it?
Actually when I looked at what is behind it, for a few moments there was a deep peace. Nothing behind it besides peace. Then the fear returned.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:36 am

Good good good. If the fear is still here, keep looking behind. That is the way. Don't dive into story, just watch the actual bodily sensations and look behind them, is there a feeler of the sensation?

Fear says that it needs to protect safety. Fear is just doing it's job. It is concerned about its job, wants to protect it. Tell it, as you would to a child, that you respect what it does and you are not asking it to stop protecting what needs to be protected- that is physical safety. It's ok. All good. Feel appreciation for it.

Ask the fear, what else is there that needs to be protected. Listen to the answer, ask it till you get a clear answer.

It may sound weird, but do it. Trust it, it works. And there is no need to go into content of fear. Just speak to the fear itself.


Write everything what comes up. And let whatever comes up be welcome.

Lots of love.

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:50 pm

Hi Ilona, I just wanted to let you know that these few days are an extremely busy time and I am not finding the right time to sit down and answer this, but I have been staying with the feeling of fear as much as possible. More soon.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:57 am

Hi there, there was a day or two of really staying with the sensations and not going into the story. It's really good. But now the story is back.

When I asked the fear what else it is protecting, it said it was also protecting me from disappointment and embarrassment and shame and rejection. Then there was an experience of one of these things and with it, there was flow, and there was the realization that it was way more fun to let these things be experienced (as long as there is staying with the feelings and not the story) than protecting from them.

It was kind of like an experience of, 'let go of the thoughts and stay with the feelings? oh come on, i did vipassana years ago, i'm so over it! but wait...it helps!' hehe. So there is renewed motivation to stay with the experience instead of the story. Just that (after the story took hold again) it feels like there is so much psychological baggage to wade through and keep returning from.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:11 pm

Great to hear.

No need to deny story or think that when it's back it should not come back.
It is all on automatic, story is being narrated, look, it's also part of experience.

But keep in mind that identification with story is the glue, that keeps it together.
Diving into experience of here now, raw sensations is what breaks the cycle. And so keep remembering that.

Story is part of being human. Accept that and it will become less sticky. You know already that you don't need to believe thoughts. They come to pass.

Is story happening to you?
Sending love.


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