Durian, what brings you here?

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:59 pm

Just asking the question is relaxing, it doesn't feel pushed aside or controlled but listened to, heard. It likes being asked what it needs. It also says its wants certainty, clarity.

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Ilona
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:40 pm

Oh good, yes all mind wants is clarity so it can come back to its natural state
Talk to mind again and ask if it's ready to look and resolve the confusion. Tell it it would bring clarity and there is nothing to be afraid of.
Give it a kiss. Thank it.

Once agreement is made, ask it if it's ready to look now. And if it says yes, then let it explore, you may want to write thoughts down on paper as they come, or just relax about it and trust the mind.
If it says no, then ask it what else it wants before of is ready to look.


Write how it goes.

Lots of love.

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:11 pm

Did this exercise yesterday. There was a desire to look to resolve the confusion and an agreement to do it, but when I asked if it is ready now, there was a tightening. When asked what it wants before it is ready to look, it said 'space' and 'time' which is kind of ironic--to unload too many ideas and strategies and clutter before it can see. This was exchange was followed deep relaxation and a feeling of mental unloading. Today = pms agitation and busy-ness. Will revisit this later. Thank u for sticking with 'me'.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:24 am

Hi again, today am reading the thread with Josh that you pointed out. It is helpful. Wanted to copy a few lines here since we are just talking about whether the mind is ready to come out of confusion and so there have been a lot of thoughts about this topic. Josh wrote,

"There's a lot of stuff and thoughts coming up about self-realization:
I'm not ready for it yet, I need to reach a 'higher spiritual state' first
I'm to full of problems and imperfections for this, I can't receive it
It will happen at some point in the future when I'm more 'evolved'"

Those lines summarize much of what goes on in this head about this process at the moment. And, 'I won't get it until I can clear some mental/emotional clutter out of my life and decrease internal conflict and improve my health and...(etc.).

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:26 am

Oh yeah, and 'person X is more dedicated to the search than I am, they should "get" it first.'

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:52 am

And one more from Josh, regarding fear:
"I'm not sure about fears, but whenever I approach this, I quickly start to feel defeated. I feel unable to see the truth, and my fear, if anything is that I just won't ever see this, that I'm not ready, that I'll remain stuck."

Excited to continue but weary of stuckness...

D

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:16 am

. There was a desire to look to resolve the confusion and an agreement to do it, but when I asked if it is ready now, there was a tightening. When asked what it wants before it is ready to look, it said 'space' and 'time' which is kind of ironic--to unload too many ideas and strategies and clutter before it can see. This was exchange was followed deep relaxation and a feeling of mental unloading. Today = pms agitation and busy-ness. Will revisit this later. Thank u for sticking with 'me'.
I will be here as long as you need me to.
So the mind says it needs space. Ask it now in which form, how you can give it space, what is it that it wants exactly.
What is it that is holding the mind? Can you talk to it as if you would with a small child.

Ask mind if it knows that there is no time. Time is now. Always.
Encourage it with live to explore the space and see what comes out of that.


Glad to hear that Billy's and Josh's thread was helpful.

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:22 am

This turned out to be a long one.

So the mind says it needs space. Ask it now in which form, how you can give it space, what is it that it wants exactly.
It feels tangled up in conflict. It doesn't believe the part that true seeing can come without anything changing in the life circumstances, because the life circumstances may get in the way of true seeing. It thinks it needs more clarity about life before it can let go of the shackles of identification. It wants to let go of something (life feels too full) but needs to know what. Today there was tension related to identifying with the story, that wanted to let go but didn't know where to go. Tonight a fear arose that was so huge it seemed like it could be deadly, too big to continue feeling (right before falling asleep). (Instead I got up and turned on computer ;)

What is it that is holding the mind? Can you talk to it as if you would with a small child.
Ever since first experience of 'no separation', (just a state though, not lasting), there have been motivational problems with life. Like, what to do, because identifying with a certain path seems pointless. But at a certain point there was so much instability I had to try it to create an identity. But there is always an internal debate because of feeling like a fraud at whatever I do (regardless of whether there is skill or talent.).

About a month ago, when it felt like some insight was unfolding and the flow was increasing, I went to a training course for a profession that involves working with learning-disabled and brain-injured people among others. Much of the founder's success is based on working with the science of the self and the brain and how, in formative (younger) years, the sense of self did not form correctly and so actually the child didn't learn to differentiate correctly between self and other, or between different body parts, etc. to be able to function properly. So there is exploration of the developmental stages of developing sense of self and re-experiencing that. When at that training, I sensed a conflict between the unfolding from this inquiry what was going on in the class (strengthening sense of self). Felt like the unfolding shut down again during that week and like maybe that was why.

So in general there is an attempt to pursue some kind of 'normal life' for stability/health, and this ever-present resistance to the attempt. Anyway the mind gets caught up in what mental cobwebs need to be cleared before there is enough space to see—to see what it thinks it has already seen and suspects it already has access to seeing if it could let go of enough conflict.

Ask mind if it knows that there is no time. Time is now. Always.
The mind says it knows this. But there is so much fear of letting go of the time story, that I am suspicious of this answer. Will ask it again tomorrow.

Encourage it with live to explore the space and see what comes out of that.
Last night, spacious experiences of how sounds, sensations, memories, etc. happen and are given associations and meaning to fit them into my story, but it is all just thoughts—the associations aren't necessarily real. Not experiencing all that insight at the moment but was nice to come back to.

<3

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:20 pm

Thank you for such honest and informative answer.

True seeing is just seeing. Does visual seeing change what is seen?
Now there is seeing through a lens of 'me'. But what is already is as always been, so seeing does not change circumstances, it's only clears the perception part.

This internal war is not necesary at all. Self, me is a fraud. It's a lie. So what happens if lying stops? A fresh honest seeing rather than constantly cheking with stories if everything match.

No need to believe in stories, because it's all made up by the mind to protect the imagined
'me'. It has tricked itself into a looped thinking. But take a close look- is there a me that manages the flow of life?

And flow is everything- there is nothing outside the flow. It's expression is now, here, this.
+ the stories and description of it narrated by mind.

What is your mind up to now?
Sending love.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:40 am

This internal war is not necesary at all. Self, me is a fraud. It's a lie. So what happens if lying stops? A fresh honest seeing rather than constantly cheking with stories if everything match.

Constantly checking with stories to see if everything matches, yeah that is a great way of putting it. Looped thinking, always checking over and over to see if 'I'm OK' based on which beliefs are operating and whether they are conflicting with each other. It's like a spiritual PTSD or something.

Well today I was thinking a lot about being stuck in the looped thinking of internal conflict (the internal war). Then tonight something happened (I saw myself reacting in a certain way) and then this got me thinking how I am reacting because of many conditions—I'm not choosing the way I am getting stuck in these loops, it is all conditions. And it just started being really funny and I started giggling. So that is where it's at at the moment, I am having a bit of the giggles about conditioning. The more I think about what to write here though I am getting more serious, so I better stop for now. :)

D

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:51 am

Giggling is good. It's a sign that you are seeing how conditioning works.
Keep noticing the reactions that come up and how they are part of automatic responses based on past memories and programming of the mind.

If you look right up close at the looped up thinking, notice the connection between thought and feeling and describe how it works. Just digg a bit to see the mechanics of it and discover how feeling- though, body- mind is wired.


Sending love.

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:45 am

Hi, been a long day and nothing insightful so I will get back to digging tomorrow. What really struck me about yesterday's experience was that it was not the result of self-improvement or reaching a certain state or being meditative or open or any external things being resolved whatever, was just seemingly spontaneous seeing/letting go of control that was so joyful and refreshing and hilarious but only lasted 1/2 hr to an hour or so before the seriousness and overthinking was back. Seems though like I can't control when this spontaneous seeing will occur.

More tomorrow.
<3

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:04 am

Great stuff.
Yes, letting go of control opens up feeling of freedom.
And it is spontaneous, just the same as closing down. No control over that either. Seriousness is happening same way as lightness is happening. But seriousness is being judged as wrong, so it feels heavy.

Can you be lighter about being serious? What in this life has to be serious? What would happen if you stop looking at all what is happening with a seriousness and let it just flow. Life living and not judging anything as good or bad.
Imagine how it would feel like. Then look at life and see what judging what is does to the body. And notice that all stuff about life is just a story in a head.
Reality is much kinder than imagined reality.


Sending love.

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durian
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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby durian » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:06 pm

Hi, was unexpectedly without internet for a couple days while in Death Valley. :) Tried to post last night but must have turned off computer before it went through!

Anyway thank you, reality is kinder than imagined reality. Judgment causes lots of pain in the body, pain of believing lies.

letting go of control opens up feeling of freedom.
In the seeing there was no me that successfully let go of control but there was just seeing conditioning so control was sort of removed from the picture. When 'I' try to let go of control, I don't know if it ever actually works. Since opening and closing is spontaneous, and there's no way to know when seeing will happen again, the last couple days I feel resistance to looking because it is 'I' trying to see and there is always some strain in trying.

Thanks! :D

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Re: Durian, what brings you here?

Postby Ilona » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:35 pm

When 'I' try to let go of control,
This is only a thought passing by effortlessly.
Next time there is some feeling that you are trying to control something, take a little pause and see if it's true. Is there a controller behind that feeling?

I am gonna make this hapoen... It's a nice line
This should be like this... Not so nice
But you get it.

Whatever feelings are arising they get labelled. And feeling of tention is labelled 'I am trying'
Test if it's true.



Much love to you.


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