Once and for all.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:08 pm

No. It doesn't affect what is happening. Not from what is seen now.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:37 pm

Ilona, the need to give the right answer seems to be tripping it all up. There is a physical tension that can make it difficult to focus. unnecessary stressing. I have done this for years. Its an odd piece of conditioning.
There was this narrative that came up. I made little stories to try and understand your question. I went outside and observed my brothers dog and narrated what they were doing while they did it. That didn't change a thing. It was always a second or 2 behind what was happening, and they didn't change their behavior.
I thought about a big game like a horse race, and asked, does the announcer affect the game by his announcing? The crowd may cheer or boo depending on what he says..
It was brought to my attention that this kind of thinking is dualistic.. to think there is one to affect another?

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:49 pm

Someone asks me a question and I feel hurried and stressed to answer. Even intimidated sometimes. Its just a physical reaction that's been observed. I recall certain family members and teachers demanding and loud, and threatening and I'd shut down.. You aren't doing this at all. just sharing.

- love Joshua

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:55 pm

And the best answer right now is, no describing doesn't affect whats happening. Describing itself is just happening.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:31 pm

Thought to share something. My body is paralyzed and I use a wheelchair. I asked my brother to pick up some mushrooms from town to go with a salad and he forgot. The first reactions, were disappointment, then anger, frustration, helplessness. A tightness and stress in the guts. With the anger, thoughts like, I'll drive to town myself. Then realizing that two cars and a drivers seat and a chair switch are things that help is needed to move, and that asking my brother, the object of anger, must happen and another feeling of resistance in the body. I even kind of enjoyed observing it as it was happening..

The thoughts came..questions. Who needs/wants control? Is there a controller? Who feels anger, frustration, helplessness ect?
"I" am angry. They did it to "me". Seeing all these things that play out in this false identity game that is playing. Seeing as writing happens how strong this auto pilot thing is... Don't mean to be overwhelming. <3

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Ilona
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Ilona » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:08 am

Hi Joshua. Thank you for your replies and observations.
Yes, describing is happening by itself as part of what is going on. But it's not all that is going on.

Reactions happen automatically, same like scratch follows itch. Something is triggered, reaction shows up.
Question here, what is not happening by itself?
What is that owns reactions?
What is not in "autopilot"?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:42 pm

Its all on autopilot. There is nothing that is not.
Nothing owns reactions. No one owns reactions. Reactions happen.
Nothing is happening by itself.

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Ilona
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Ilona » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:54 am

Nice. I'm not sure about your last sentence, is that what you meant?

What drives the story?
Can you look and tell me what you find.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:20 pm

Thank you. I think I meant nothing is happening by itself of its own volition. As in a separate distinct entity or person running the show.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:20 pm

To answer your question. Beliefs. Belief in a separate self with a story, a past a future a history. A story to control and protect...

love

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:12 am

I don't know how (yet) or if its possible to completely separate from those stories and labels and beliefs. I suppose its an assumption to think that that is the goal here.. I feel I get this intellectually, and have had moments of the experience of these constructions falling away, or at least bits of it, a slow unwinding, and aha moments. But if there is some kind of experience to be found where it all falls away... again there is seeking happening often here.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:21 am

And maybe Its been known and lived all along, and its lived often without recognition. And maybe the thoughts alone will never fully conceive of it.
In direct seeing and direct experience it is felt, seen ,heard, breathed. And words are often a poor substitute.

-love J

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Ilona
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Ilona » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:20 am

Yes, you got it, beliefs are driving the story, as in beliefs organise experience. So let's look at beliefs. Are beliefs true. Is any belief true? Which belief is truth?

What do you KNOW that is true?

More interestingly, what is that has beliefs, what do they stick to?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:57 pm

No belief is true. What is Known is true is direct experiencing, With the 5 senses.
Me I Joshua is what beliefs stick to.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:02 pm

I is not real, me is not real, Joshua is a label for a story and person that doesn't exist, so the beliefs really stick to nothing.


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