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Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:22 pm
by Ilona
Hey, let's move it to the forum. :)

Can you tell me a bit about the past week, what is different? What is same?
Have you found what you've been looking for?
What was that?

Kind regards

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:50 pm
by barnaby
On Monday I had a very brief Facebook chat with Ilona.
She popped up and said she had some time. I had no idea that a 5-10 minute conversation would result with "myself" view collapsing so quickly. I was shocked. This was not want I planned or even wanted first thing on Monday morning! I had a bunch of work to do that day.

Anyway, Ilona suggested I lie down and observe my heart after this. I did that, and the sensations were so intense.

For the next few days the sensations, especially when I would set time aside to meditate were so very intense. As was the sound, the hum, the buzzing I could hear.

So much has been the same, and also different.
I'm still struggling to agree that the game of the self is up, because there is still desire.
I still feel the cravings, the desires, the yearnings. The desire for chocolate, or even a good meal comes up. The desire human contact, the desire for sex, the desire to talk to a pretty woman, the desire to write, the desire to answer emails and be on top of my work, the desire to do a good job for my clients... and so much more...

And yet, I observe all this, and my body movements, and the thoughts... they are all just happening. Where is the self? I'm really struggling to see it. I feel dumber. My thoughts stop. There is more space. Lots more space. Just movements. Just desire. Just opinions and reactions... all these things keep popping up, along with the notion of an "I" and there is no control over this.

Loneliness still arises, as does happiness and fear. But they just arise. Self tries to take ownership, but it feels so flimsy, it's lost much of it's oomph... what basis does it claim ownership. I look and cannot see any.

Time just feels like today, and I notice I even look forward to, or appreciate the idea of death. Very strange.

The identity is there, all the same mannerisms, but it's like watching them in slow motion, all coming from habits.

And when I'm with others, or doing my work, there is all this focus on that outer reality, and the habitual things to say and do - they keep playing out. But coming from "me"... I'm losing my ability to fully understand what that means.

And when I watch others... I wonder why they struggle. Things are just happening. There is no basis to anything. Life is just flowing along, there is no control. Why so much fuss? Isn't this so "not-self" evident? It seems so ordinary and completely obvious... why did struggle for 23 years of daily meditation and countless retreats to understand this - there is no basis to self, and it is so profoundly obvious.
I feel dumb and spacious and flowing without knowing where. The openness of life is astounding and the thoughts arise to surrender.
But there are still the same thoughts seeking praise, even for writing this, seeking approval. So habitual. And then they fall away with no basis. The world feels empty and looks foolish and lost and remarkable all at once.

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:11 am
by Ilona
Hey barnaby,
Thank you for lovely update!
I still feel the cravings, the desires, the yearnings. The desire for chocolate, or even a good meal comes up. The desire human contact, the desire for sex, the desire to talk to a pretty woman, the desire to write, the desire to answer emails and be on top of my work, the desire to do a good job for my clients... and so much more...
Sounds like you have an expectation, that desire should no longer be here. I'm sorry, but seeing that self is mind created concept does not turn you into a desireless zombie aka couch potato. :)
What is wrong with wanting to connect or have a piece of chocolate?
Are you assuming, that impulses to do something, to express, to move are coming from the separate self? Can you see that all this movement is part of movement of totality and is flowing freely, whether you name it a desire or plain wanting or a next obvious step to take?

Is urge to answer emails and be on top with work something that should drop?

Life does not stop life-ing...
Scratch follows itch, naturally. And if you call an itch a desire to scratch, then... Hehe... It's a misunderstanding!

Can you look for a day and catch all wants and desires as they show up. Then see if it's something natural or something that should not be here. Tell me what you noticed.

Sending love.

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:05 am
by barnaby
I see desire, wanting, scratching... whatever you call it, as natural.
It is occurring. There is no self behind it, and it can't be stopped... nor should it be.
There is only the flow and this is all I feel. I am "fine" with all these desires, because they are just flowing through, and changeable anyway.

I cannot see a self anymore. I see the fallacy. Which sounds so funny saying "I see..."!!
"I" just don't know any other way to write about it.

There are even the thoughts that this can't be true... but they are just drifting past. Not coming from "me".
It seems endless, and I just feel it all passing through me.
This now occurs as so obvious. It is so strange, and so ordinary. It seems strange that it is not clear to everyone.

I'm chatting to some friends about it, who are asking me more about it.
I'm happy to share, and I say all this to them. They are very inquisitive. And I find it both illuminating to discuss it and somewhat exhausting. This mind/brain is finding all this so new.

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:27 am
by Ilona
Beautiful! Yes, it's strange, how come this is not obvious to everyone!! It's in plain sight, simple and ordinary!
We have some "final questions" once it's clear that shift occurred. Are you ready to answer them?
Is there any doubt?

Sending love.

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:24 am
by barnaby
There are still thoughts of doubt, but I doubt them ;)
They seem to be attached to the "I" which seems to have lost all it's ability to believe in itself.

However, there is still much habitual thinking, which is to be expected.
I watch it pass through, get caught up in it - but see that for what it is, more habitual thinking of an "I" ownership, without any basis in reality.

Please send the questions, it would be great to answer them.

Much love

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:30 am
by Ilona

Sounds like the bubble of belief has got a hole in it! :)

Here they are the questions, take your time, please. Just write what feels true to you.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Much love.

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:53 pm
by barnaby
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. When "I" look (which makes me laugh)... I don't see any originating self that things come from. No self making "things" happen. "Things" being the reactions, impulses, thoughts, feelings, movement. There is movement and action, and reaction. Where is the "I", the me, making any of that happen? I can't see it. Did I ever? It's not like "I" went away, the lie of it was seen through. Indicating that it was never even there.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

This mind, filled with thoughts, keeps claiming ownership over each new thought that comes up. Each new thought can self reference itself to another thought, creating what looks and feels like a multi-layered web that when felt in totality has the characteristic of what we "think" of as a self. But this "self" actually is built from an almost endless series of "self referencing" individual momentary thoughts that try to make themselves look like cohesive whole, because they come in such quick succession, as such, they try to congeal together to make an "I".
This starts when "I" wake, and come out of the sleep dreams. There is the thought "those were 'my' dreams". But I didn't make them happen. They just happened. And yet, ownership is claimed over them.
Next the mind feels this body and seeks to claim ownership over all the sensations. And yet, those sensations arrive unbidden, nothing is behind them, they just arise. Some pleasant, others unpleasant. There is no control over any of them. And yet, there is such a continual strong push from the mind that it "owns" this body.
This all comes from ingrained habits given to the mind by all the other humans telling it repeatedly that it "owns" all this stuff. And so the lie is believed every moment of every day.
It is like a magic trick that the mind uses to seduce and hypnotise itself into having confidence in it's separate specialness. The only thing that keeps all this going is the firm view that it is separate, in control and owning whatever it can. It is like a game that it likes to play, to keep itself amused.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

When I first found LU, it was August 2014. I was terrified. I was desperately searching for this for over 24 years. And then more intensely in 2014 than ever before. But upon finding LU in August '14, I knew that what Jed said was real, and you guys were the real deal. Then I ran away, seeking to come back to it later. Then in Feb 2015 after smoking Mexican toad goo, it blew open mind, and killed "me". I was part of the infinite. The self died. But I was confused. And then I remembered LU. I knew you had something to offer. So in the days leading up to my Monday morning FB chat with Ilona, I was confused, disoriented, because "I" was losing "me" and didn't understand.
Before the toad, I was still afraid. I didn't want to die. I didn't understand Jed. I was willing to give everything for this, I was willing to lose everything, and yet I was still afraid. I still felt separate, alone, desperate.
And then after the DMT toad, the mind just had space and connection to the infinite.
Then Ilona cracked the mind, pushing it to probe the remaining lies. And then it burnt up.
After this, for the next 2 weeks I was alone in grief, desolation. "Barnaby" was no more. I saw the magic trick. I could not unsee it. I wanted to, like Cypher, un-see what I had seen. Jed was right, be careful what you wish for. And I had wished for this, staking my life on it. And now "my" life was over. I understood suicide for the first time. I was happy to just die. I was planes, buses or cars, waiting for the crash, longing for it. Take me out.
The "ego" identity was so confronted by it's displacement, it was like "well, if I'm no longer in charge" (and it never was) "then why do you even need me? let's just really finish this off, and wipe the whole thing out...."
And yet, in the weeks after that, I began to see just how amusing it all was.
I started to laugh, and get the joke. Now, months later, "Barnaby" keep popping up constantly, and claims ownership on everything, but all I can do is laugh. Now there is emptiness at the core. There is the loss of everything. And yet, there is still this life to lead.
I did another DMT trip, from a wood in Peru, in San Fransisco. On this one, I saw more clearly how this life was playing out. There was no separate self. And so, once more I tried to end this life on the trip. But it did not work. And I saw again the joke and the journey, and how much more there was to live.
Now I feel at home in the nothingness. Although at times it still feels weird, no where to get, because there is "nothing" that is trying to even get anywhere.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Ilona's questions. In that conversation that lasted less than 10 minutes, she shattered my separate self belief structure. It all happened so fast. It was actually a Monday morning. I had plenty of work to do on my computer, and was excited to watch the live stream of the new Apple Watch presentation on March 9th. But Ilona offered to coach me then and there. I felt I couldn't turn it down. I thought it might take months. I just didn't expect it to take minutes.
It might have been when she asked "do you need a self to live?"
It was clear there no self, only life living. Only the feelings. And the feelings were trying to protect against being seen through. And she kept asking me to look. And then the intensity took over. My body heated up, and burned, and it consumed what was left. It was then that she said "there's nothing wrong with intensity, and to keep going into it" and with that the remainder of the illusion, the lie was collapsed.
"I" could simply no longer hold "i" together.

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

"I" do not make decisions. I do not understand how or why they happen. Things just happen. Where do these decisions come from? No idea. They just arise.

Free will? I just don't see it. Perhaps it is there. But what is that would have the free will? There is "no-thing" to even have any free will. The whole thing is preposterous. There is just life living, and this conduit - body mind, acting with life flowing through it. Why? Fuck knows why - it just is.

Choice? That's like decisions and free will wrapped up together. Where is the choice? It looks like there is a choice in the mind, and yet there are really just many competing thoughts/feelings vying for supremacy. One among them is trying to win. Each one has their own energy and impulse. They are each vying for "control". There is no "me" there. There are a series of either weak or strong reactions trying to gain an outcome.
For example, just now I look out the sea and take a sip of water from the glass. Was that a choice? Most would say yes, but really, the impulse to do it ran through my system and response was strong enough to make it happen.
Just like it is with writing these words. They flow through, making it look like each word is a choice. But I just can't see the choice. I can't see the "self" that is said to be making this happen.

What makes things happen? Presumably life. But I don't know. There are just lots of feelings and thoughts that compels action forward. And then there are all the things happening "out" in the world, and the further impact all the feelings and thoughts arising. And as they collide, new impulses are born. And this just goes on and on.

How does it work? It works because it already has momentum and there are already so many moving parts. It's more like, how can it not work? It's just self evident that its' working. It works because there is already so much impulse and energy in the entire system that is driving everything, such that the entire system just keeps on going.

What am I responsible for? The more attention is paid to what is going on, both inside the mind, in the body and out in the world, the easier flow is seen. Life seems to seek an easier flow, and by paying attention, by living in side a cleaner and cleaner system that is able to see very clearly, the faster I can just respond from observation of the patterns. So what I am responsible for is, paying attention and listening, listening to optimal expression that life is seeking to move through this body/mind.

6) Anything to add?

The crux of the matter seems to be 3 main lies that self wants to not see, and that it tells itself continuously.
1 - I am in control
2 - I own stuff
3 - I am separate
Clearly they are all full on, blantant lies. There is no control over anything. It is all just happening, from impulse and reaction both inside and outside. There is nothing that is owned, we arrive with nothing, and leave with nothing. And anything can be taken from us at any time against our bidding. And there is no separation from this life system, it is who we are and runs through us.

The way forward is to pay more and more attention to the 3 primary feedbacks.
1 - The mental/emotional feedback.
2 - The body/physical feedback.
3 - The outer world feedback.
By paying close attention to these, there is so much more opportunity for fun and harmony. As it becomes crystal clear about what to do every moment. There is just flow, and there always is. But the sweetest flow is discernible by paying close attention to the feedback patterns. And then, once tuned in, there patterns can guide everything, and the self is seen through every moment, and one can just laugh and laugh, waiting to be taken out whenever the system has had enough of playing through this.
One can surrender fully to the life force, to the mission that is forever present and working through this mind/body. By seeing through the lies, one can start to fully let life live through one, said another way, one can fully start to live, even though there is no one there to live. This makes truly anything possible, because there are no limits, none whatsoever, because one is therefore fully capable of truly anything.
It makes for a wild ride without end.

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:30 am
by barnaby
There is one more point, and that is how the self tries to NOT feel and pull back.
The self has it's goal EVERY moment to keep going. To keep it-self to keep going.
It's primary enemy is feeling the intensity of every moment.
It's primary enemy is feeling the FULL intensity of life.
And what is the best way to avoid this, what is the winning strategy that the self has figured out?...
To pull back and feel separate and not feel the intensity of the sensations in the body. This is what it attempts (and most often succeeds) every moment.
And so, what is the antidote to this? To feel more and more, to keep falling into the intensity, to feel all the emotions as they arise, to lean into them, to feel the sensations in the body, to open the body, to feel it's intensity on a greater and greater level.
Especially fear. Behind all the emotions is the ultimate emotion that drives the self... fear.
It is this very act of feeling, and doing this every moment, that will wipe out the separate self on a moment by moment basis. This is the edge that one can truly live, and feel the moment, and die and be reborn as the separate self dies due it's full integration with the true reality. Feeling each moment as it unfolds in it's ultimate intensity.
Especially do this whenever you think or feel that you shouldn't feel what you're actually beginning to feel. Continuously opening to all the feelings that keep arising, in the face of a mind that tells you shouldn't feel them. This is the antidote.

But the self pulls back into the comfort of "self judgement". Of numbness to what is really wanting to be felt. It pushes back using judgement as it's powerful weapon. This pushing back with judgement, is pushing back against truth, pushing back against life, and it is the very source of how self builds itself every moment.
So... lean into the feelings in the body, the emotions in the mind, and welcome all the fear, welcome all the self loathing, welcome all the judgements. Welcome everything and let it rip through the system.
This can then become a series of onion rings that keep unfolding allowing you to feel more and more of the full spectrum of intensity in the moment - felt THROUGH THE BODY.
The body and it's feelings are the key to this awakening to the truth of the moment, which at the same time equals the death of the separate self, as it dies to the full integration of the feeling of reality that is truly arising. It does this at that juncture point instead of the familiar pushing away and wishing some other feeling was there in it's place.
Becoming real means fully feeling the full force of the truth in every moment. Truth equals the death of the separate self, and the embracing of life full spectrum intensity.

Re: Chat with Barnaby

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:46 am
by Ilona
Brilliant. Thank you so much for taking time and writing all out. This was delightful to read.
i have no further questions for you and welcome you to LU community on fb. I am adding you to a few groups.

much love!