Thread for Gerald.

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Ilona
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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:54 am

Good work! Yes, you got it, looking, being aware of sensations without labeling them, let them dissolve, pass quickly.
Good to hear that all is clicking in and there is more understanding.

Now let's see, does the openness care, what shows up in it? Does a screen care what movie is played on it? Is screen uncomfortable with what scene is showing up - horror, comedy, thriller etc...?

In actuality, when something "unwanted" shows up, is that part of the life life-ing or it's something that should not be happening and is not part of life?
Does aware presence care if you accept what is happening or not?
When I thougth shows up, does that thought care what other thoughts come with it?

What are all thoughts happening to? When you look at what is looking, what is there?


Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
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GeraldF
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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby GeraldF » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:00 pm

Thank you for these questions. I’d really love to get some clarity on these points, which have caused me long-term puzzlement.

Now let's see, does the openness care what shows up in it?
Does aware presence care if you accept what is happening or not?
When I thought shows up, does that thought care what other thoughts come with it?


No, the openness doesn’t care what shows up in it. That seems obvious to me at this point. That would mean it is “I” that doesn’t like the content. We’ve already established that “I” don’t have control of the content, and “I” don’t have control of the thoughts about the content. In fact, it’s all content within the Openness.

What are all thoughts happening to? When you look at what is looking, what is there?

What is here is the Openness or Space or Emptiness or The Void or Presence Awareness – all those capitalized names. It is what perceives all the thoughts and other sensory input – all the content.

But is it also what is generating the content? I guess it must be. I get confused on this point. Please help!

This seems to imply that the Openness is SEPARATE from the content, observing it. But in non-duality explanations, it’s all supposed to be one. I guess it’s all happening HERE, so maybe that’s how it’s all one? Please help that make sense!!

Thank you, Ilona.

Gerald.

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:33 am

Right, let's get this cleared!
What is here is the Openness or Space or Emptiness or The Void or Presence Awareness – all those capitalized names. It is what perceives all the thoughts and other sensory input – all the content.
The confusion is here because of how language operates. It says that there is an object, subject, action. In language we have nouns that are "doers" of action. There of there must be something that perceives! But in actuality, there are no object, no subjects, just activity, process, motion. Nothing perceives anything. There is perceiving happenig.
Look now.
Is there a breather? Language says I breathe, body breathes. Can be also said- breathing is happenig. Same with perceiver. There is no one perceiving. I is not a perceiver. It's just nothing there.
Can you see that?
Whatever name it's given, language makes it into a subject. But there is no WHO. Who is a concept.

So check in actuality- there is perceiving.
Is there a gap between perceiver and perceived? Test with teach sense. Sound, taste, touch, smell, visual. Is there someone doing perceiving, or it's a matter of description?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby GeraldF » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:48 pm

Okay, I think I get this. Non-duality is pointing to the fact that there’s just one thing… perceiving. No one doing it. No need for “awareness.” Just everything appearing as perceiving.

Now I’d just like to give an overview to clarify my understanding at this point.

When perceiving the ever-changing flow of content, there can be either acceptance of what’s going on (just being absorbed in the content with thoughts flowing freely by) or resistance (with thoughts coming up that reject what it is here). These resisting thoughts and feelings arise automatically, based on past conditioning and whatever else – and these are what is perceived as an “I” with a separate identity.

By recognising the “I” as just a series of thoughts, the resistant thoughts and feelings are allowed to pass more quickly.

There’s another point I’d like to clarify… If it’s all happening automatically based on conditioning, this questioning that we’re doing here is part of the programming too. But this is modifying the past conditioning with new learning. The learning is tipping the scales to the point when, perhaps, it will become self-evident. Am I getting that?

I was listening to your latest audio recording from the March 7 meeting and the point is made – I think! – that just having the availability of this recognition is enough. So I don’t need to worry that it’s not constant recognition yet.

So am I understanding things? Clearing away the questions that have been so much a part of my seeking is definitely helping this view seem more natural and comfortable.

Thank you so much for your assistance, Ilona...
Gerald.

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:14 am

hi Gerald.

It's difficult to put all this in words.
Perceiving and awareness is the same expressed through different words. Have a look, there is no perceiving without awareness and no awareness without perceiving.
It's not that awareness is perceiving. Is not that perceiving needs or does not need awareness, it's the same!

Resistance or acceptance is too, something that is perceived. It's not something that allows or stops perceiving. Its the content of knowing.

Yes, knowing where to look is the start, you don't need to worry about seeing being permanent, the fluctuation from I get it and I don't get it is normal at this stage. The stuff comes up to be looked at. Clearing can take long time. So be patient and kind to yourself. But trust, that all is unfolding precisely as it should.

As for conditioning, what is that is conditioned?

Sending love.
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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby GeraldF » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:38 pm

Good day, Ilona. Hope you're well!

Your questions today are really removing all the supports of language and concepts.

Taking away language, it comes down to this bare moment. It’s just a matter of sticking with what’s right here/right now. I guess this is the core of the explanation I’ve heard: “There’s just this.”

So my eagerness for explanations is getting in the way of experiential understanding. Just knowing this gives a kind of peace of mind. There’s a freedom from needing to know. A relaxation. The peace is just here in this immediacy – and it gets clouded as soon as there’s an attempt at description.

As for conditioning, what is that is conditioned?


I really have no idea! I’ve heard people talk about neural pathways in the brain, and memory must have something to do with it. But in this moment, it doesn’t really matter. One can only ever “do the next obvious thing to do.”

What I’m getting now is that all one can do is accept and relax with whatever is right here/right now.

Thank you so much...
Gerald.

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:14 pm

Just this. Yes.
And it's accepted already- it's here.
It's good to relax.

Any doubts?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby GeraldF » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:46 am

Hello there, dear Ilona.

You asked if I have any doubts…

If the goal is to see/feel the immediacy of what’s here and now, and to recognise that “I” is not in control, I do see that. Would that qualify as being “pushed over the edge?” I can’t say I recognise this 51% of the time, which to me would qualify as “over the edge.”

I expect I have similar doubts to people in other threads I’ve read. Will this last? How do I know if I’m “clearing” stuff away, or just sinking back into my old ways?

Last night, I woke with an hour-long panic attack – going back and forth between what “I” should do about a certain business situation, and looking to see that “I” wasn’t in control of it anyway. For periods, I just allowed the bodily sensations to flow without adding any language, and that felt better. And eventually I just got up and started working. Would that be considered clearing stuff up, or letting it fall away?

How do you assess this? Please advise!

Endless thanks…
Gerald.

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:22 am

Ok, let's see.
Will what last?
What is in control?
You say that I is not in control, what is actualy right this moment in control of what is happening?
For the old patterns to clear they need to be seen consciously. So falling back into old ways IS clearing. Everything that shows up is part of the process. Can it be otherwise?

Sending love.
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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby GeraldF » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:31 pm

Wow, Ilona, you really know how to ask the most powerful questions. Thank you for these pointers.

Obviously I don’t know what is in control. It’s so reassuring to hear that “Everything that shows up is part of the process. Can it be otherwise?” That brings immediate relaxation.

Today I’ve been noticing all the thoughts saying things shouldn’t be as they are. And I can even let that criticism be as it is.

Then I can just watch what happens, without my control…

Gerald.

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:53 am

Today I’ve been noticing all the thoughts saying things shouldn’t be as they are. And I can even let that criticism be as it is.
brilliant... that's the way of least resistance.

when you say I, what does this word refer to?
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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby GeraldF » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:07 pm

Hello there, Ilona.

I was just preparing an update for you when I received your post!

when you say I, what does this word refer to?

“I” think that was just a convention of language in that usage: “I can even let that criticism be as it is.” It doesn’t take personal willpower to let something be as it is. It just is.

I feel like “I” am building confidence and comfort with what I’ve been learning, as looking happens more often and more organically throughout the day. I’ve been rereading “Gateless Gatecrashers” and continuing to listen to Enlightening Quotes and the recordings of your meetings.

Even periods when "I" am lost in thought can be recognised as just “life lifing.” It’s not a problem. It’s just what was happening for a while. That is really reducing the amount of self-criticism, and it’s taking the seriousness out of thoughts about what “I” should or shouldn’t be doing. What a relief.

When an uncomfortable feeling appears, "I" don’t need to turn it into a problem. It can be free. It’s just what’s here right now.

In periods when I’m just watching what’s happening without “my” control, it actually becomes sort of a fun, fascinating game to see what will happen next.

Anyway, “I” am just getting more familiar with this shift, feeling more assured about it in experience, beyond intellectual explanations. Relaxing with it, instead of struggling to understand it. It feels like a good pace.

Thank you, as always,
Gerald.

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:19 am

Awesome! What you describe, resonates..
Are you ready for our final questions? Or you feel there is still doubt and something else needs to be looked at?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby GeraldF » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:29 pm

Happy Easter, Ilona!

I've been rereading my thread and pondering – and yes, I think I'm ready for the Final Questions. It sounds so ominous!

So much appreciation to you... feeling a little teary with love and gratitude.

Gerald.

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Re: Thread for Gerald.

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:47 pm

Beautiful, Gerald.


Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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