Any guide wants to help?

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:29 pm

Hello Petrus! The body exercise is turning out to be real hard form me. Mental images and distractions keep coming up and I can't focus on what is actually there when I close my eyes.
I'm going to need some more time. I don't want it to be hurried and shallow.
I'll be writing again tomorrow with the answers.
Bye
Simone
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Petrus
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Petrus » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:03 pm

Take your time Simone. This conversation is for you.

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:22 am

Dear Petrus good morning!
With the eyes closed, sitting still, notice the other sensations: hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. With only the input from those four senses, and without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
No.
Does the body have a weight or a volume?
Neither.
Is there a boundary between the body and the ground?
The sensations themselves say nothing about what 'body' and 'ground' are. When I open my eyes all sensations are associated to the body (there's no tactile information coming from the ground, so to speak). So there's no ground or body until I open my eyes or think about it. There is just pure sensations coming from nowhere.

In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?
If sensations are not linked by the mind to the mental images of the body, it has no form or shape.
Is there an inside or outside?
No. With eyes closed there is no inside or outside. There is just sensations and the stream of thought.
What does the body consist of in direct experience?
A collection of tactile sensations.

Do you have control over this body?
The stream of thought has control over the body. Am I the stream of thought?
Does the body see, hear, feel etc?
It doesn't see and it doesn't hear. The body with eyes closed is 'feel' itself.
Or is there seeing, hearing, feeling?
This sounds more true.

Are you a body with a mind? I really don't know.
A mind in a body? I don't know.
Are you this body? I don't know.
This made me realize that I AM PERCEIVED, therefore I'm just another object in perception. I'm not
the perceiver!
Actually that is the core issue to realize!!
In other words it means: there is no real you. There is life, there is existence, but no separate you.
Can you see that is true?
When I look closely I can see that I (my body and the stream of thought) am appearing in experience just like a sound or anything else. I can see that I'm an object in perception. An object with desires and feelings ahahah


Petrus, who's writing these words? There is still the strong belief that 'I am thinking these words'. Is it the same as saying 'A unicorn is thinking these words'? Are words thinking themselves?

Thank you.
Simone
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:36 am

I have the feeling that this process is gonna take a while ahahahah sorry!
Let's relax. There is no hurry.

Another thing: I used to meditate (usually with eyes open) almost everyday. By meditation I mean sitting in silence and letting go of control. Or observing the stream of thought. Anyway I'm not doing it in these days.

Do you think that some meditation directed on focusing on Direct Experience would be of help? Like closing eyes and just focusing on distinguishing what is really happening and what is mental. What is experience, what is thought. Of the answers above some of them were slightly thought-polluted.

Thank you again!
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Petrus
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Petrus » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:44 am

No time to answer you now.
But about the meditation: just do what makes you feel comfortable.
So if it feels good meditate, if it doesnt dont meditate.

Warm regards, Petrus

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:18 am

Petrus don't worry. Actually I was thinking of slowing down a little.

Apart from 'during the day' inquiry, right now I can't really afford to spend more than an hour or two a day for this process. Plus I've seen that time helps see things better. Like the question you asked me "Do you think thoughts or do thoughts think you?" is still digging here and it can do more work. I've carried it around during the day and having the time to re-explore it has worked well so far. I'm a slow guy! I need to think and look and observe and look and notice and ask and look again and it takes a lot of time.

That said I would like to slow down the rhythm.
This way I will have time to really inquire properly and deeply and look clearly.
We can write everyday but I really cannot handle more than one or two questions a day LOL.

Could we reduce the amount of work/questions?

Thank you again.

P.S. If I'm hungry for truth during the day can I check the app quotes? Or is it better to follow only one line of inquiry?


Simone
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:13 pm

There is still a part of 'me' somewhere that believes that something can be "done" to get back to what was experienced months ago. Maybe that's what's preventing it. There is nothing 'I' can do to make it happen. There is no control. Maybe giving up is the way. There would be letting go of 'that thing that wants to see the illusion of the self so that it can enjoy life more'.

That there is no self is more or less clear most of the time. But there is still the seeking to get to the 'state' of fullness, expansion, fearlessness, knowingwhatitisallabout-ness, etc.

Some advice would be appreciated (by anyone). Thank you.
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Petrus
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Petrus » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:23 pm

Hi Simone,
Let's relax. There is no hurry.
...
If I'm hungry for truth during the day can I check the app quotes?
Funny, you want to slow down, but in the same time you want to go fast!
Take all the time you need. The rule "post regularly" is to ask for commitment. You definately are committed.
I (mostly) answer quickly, you dont have to do the same. A day, even two days is fine too!
And you can do whatever feels good to do, so reading the app quotes is fine.
There is still a part of 'me' somewhere that believes that something can be "done"
That habit could stay for a while, but when you see every time it is an imaginary I, only existing in thoughts, it will faint.
But there is still the seeking to get to the 'state' of fullness, expansion, fearlessness, knowingwhatitisallabout-ness, etc.
That is an expectation of how it should be. How do you know how it should be? From books? Are you sure they know it for you?
It is as it is. And you can look en see how it is for you. For everybody it is different!
What does the body consist of in direct experience?
A collection of tactile sensations.
Thats it. No more, no less.
The stream of thought has control over the body.
Is that so? Isnt thought subtitling only?
Am I the stream of thought?
Who is asking?
If you can see a stream of thought, can you be that stream in the same time?
... I don't know.
Very good.

I am not in a hurry either.
Take your time.

Warm regards, Petrus

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:03 pm

As I said, 'I' had glimpses of reality (it felt like there was nobody and I was eveything and full and extremely fulfilled. Plus there was the feeling "I know everything. And the truth is that there's nothing to know. Why do we always ask ourselves those stupid existential questions? It's so simple!"). I don't really remember how and when this thing disappeared (did it? :D) but after a while there was me again and the usual.

I probably made it into an experience and now I am searching for that same experience.
I am guilty of expectations.

The self that remains is mostly the "pure seeker of enlightenment, meant as a blissful experience of expansion".
That habit could stay for a while, but when you see every time it is an imaginary I, only existing in thoughts, it will faint.
Yeah I'm starting to see it now. There's no bliss. So what. Who cares? Who? I need to take a look there.
The stream of thought has control over the body.
Is that so? Isnt thought subtitling only?
The stream of thought and the actual voice seem to be pretty much the same thing. It is probably just subtitling. Actually I just noticed that the hand went on the keyboard by itself and only afterwards the stream appeared again.

I've invented one funny game to realize the stupidity of the 'I' as claimer of doings and sayings. Everytime the thought:
"I did this. I said that. I don't agree."
comes in, I replace the word "I" with the word "unicorn":
"The unicorn did this. The unicorn said that. The unicorn doesn't agree."
Ahahahah! It's really funny and it's helping me see through this claiming of things.

Thank you Peter. Have a good night.

Simone
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Petrus
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Petrus » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:14 am

Hi Simone,
I probably made it into an experience and now I am searching for that same experience.
You didnt made it into an experience: it was!

Seeing true the illusion is not an experience, but something that lasts.
Like seeing true the illusion that Santa is not real. He stills exists in a way, but you never will be believing that he really lives on the North Pole. Or do you?

The unicorn wrote this.

Warm regards, Petrus

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:06 pm

Aahahahah!

I don't know what happened. What remains of that experience is just thoughts. So it's not important.

Right now there is the recognition that there is no 'I' but it still feels as if there is one sometimes. Judging is there, some slight suffering/seeking is there, fear might happen if conditions are for it to happen. Love is the same as usual. There is no looking at the walls or the sky and feeling 'oh that's me!' and feeling an overflow of love and joy towards experiencing.

The recognition that there is no solid entity controlling thoughts or actions is there when I look at it closely. It can be forgotten anyway.

In my experience, the 'me' is more like a label. You can label some sensations as ' me', property as 'me', thoughts as 'me', the body as 'me'. Almost all labels are still sticking to the objects, even though is has been seen that the me is a fiction. I might 'un-stick' temporarily a label (from the body, the thoughts etc) but it's always a temporary thing.

Maybe conditioning is so strong with this mind that it will take a while for the realization to flourish.

I don't know what else can be done. Maybe continue inquiring during the day ("who is doing this", "is there a someone here walking" etc) until it becomes clearer?

Tell me if I missed something please.

Thank you
Simone
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Petrus
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Petrus » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:40 pm

Hi Simone,
There is no looking at the walls or the sky and feeling 'oh that's me!' and feeling an overflow of love and joy towards experiencing.
I am glad there isnt.
Would you like that to happen? Maybe there are pills for that?
Maybe conditioning is so strong with this mind that it will take a while for the realization to flourish.
What exactly are you waiting for?
When will you be able to say that "realization is flourishing"?
I don't know what else can be done.
There is nothing to be done!
But suppose there should be something that had to be done, who or what will be there to do it?

Warm regards, Petrus

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:44 pm

Maybe the problem is that I have too much b.s./expectations/intellectual understanding/beliefs about how no-self feels/should feel like.

I don't know anything. It's just thoughts saying "the unicorn knows what it should be like, the unicorn knows what reality is, the unicorn has seen through the illusion of the unicorn"
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:44 pm

Don't reply. I haven't seen your post. I will reply in a few minutes
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable

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Allisone
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Re: Any guide wants to help?

Postby Allisone » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:03 pm

I am glad there isnt.
Would you like that to happen? Maybe there are pills for that?
AHAHAHAH ROTFL
What exactly are you waiting for?
When will you be able to say that "realization is flourishing"?
There is the belief that a palpable feeling of absence and peace should be there and in the meanwhile there should be everything perceived as one thing. Maybe it is this looking for peace is what's preventing the peace form being seen.

Maybe by flourishing I mean the dropping of a considerable amount of conditioning/seeking.
There is nothing to be done!
But suppose there should be something that had to be done, who or what will be there to do it?
Nice question. There's nothing the unicorn can do. Yet the unicorn (that doesn't exist) is struggling to look into the fact that it doesn't exist.
Who is inquiring? This is it I think. I need to let that question sink in. I'm in a hurry right now. I will let you know what comes up.

Thank you again
Simone
Catch what isn't truth cause the truth is not catchable


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